Why Jack Johnson is Not as Great as You We’re Told

[The Old LefHook]

He obviously meant in reference to Vaudeville. An actor...as in the normal definition of the word. I don't think it's difficult to understand.

There was nothing much humorous about the remark. Rather, it probably was an attempt at a pointed joke or a deflection. He apparently did not want to talk about it seriously, or he would have.

[Dr. Z]

Ah whatever. I just had to comment about your hate for a guy that's being dead nearly 80 years!
Jack, for all his faults, and everybody who's anybody has them, was a great champion, a great fighter and a courageous man.
To become champ when he did, with the way attitude s were back then, took so much.
Could you show the same guts?!
I'm not sure.
Don't know why the venom but probably life experience s.
Take care

You speak like Ivich does and use his lacks of paragraphs too. Hmmm I see you're a newbie coming to his rescue. Something is wrong here. Mods!

[GhostofDempsey]

You speak like Ivich does and use his lacks of paragraphs too. Hmmm I see you're a newbie coming to his rescue. Something is wrong here. Mods!

Both of them from U.K. too, imagine that. He suddenly comes out of nowhere to cheerlead Ivich.

[billeau2]

You speak like Ivich does and use his lacks of paragraphs too. Hmmm I see you're a newbie coming to his rescue. Something is wrong here. Mods!

You have made unproven allegations about Ivich. That speaks to your lack of credability. Whether an alt, or not, not my concern, some of the other accusations that you make deserve some proof.

[QueensburyRules]

How is he using the word 'actors'?

I know you said the conversation took place during a period when he was performing on stage. So his quip was somekind of a witty methorphor at that moment.

But I am curious as to what you think he meant by 'actors'.

Was he speaking of a segregation common to the theater or was he making a slur that he was following the previous champions (who played the same 'color linw game?)

- - Black face in Vaudeville was the rage then.

Per IMDb-Al Jolson was known in the industry as \"The World's Greatest Entertainer,\" for well over 40 years. After his death his influence continued unabated with such performers as Sammy Davis Jr., Elvis Presley, Mick Jagger, David Bowie, Jackie Wilson and Jerry Lee Lewis all mentioning him as an inspiration. Jolson was born Asa Yoelson in Lithuania

Jolson was feted as a King in Harlem and helped innumerable black performers get their crack into showbiz as it existed then. By the time of James Earl Jones, NAACP made black face a political bombshell as he found out in blackface and white facein roles such that they had to remove a hit play from Broadway to Stratford-upon-Avon to escape their clutches. Amos and Andy was a mega radio hit in verbal blackface they made a movie of back then. When TV staged the show in the 50s using black actors it was an immediate Hit of hits propelling the actors into the stratosphere of recognition and earnings. Naacp got them shut down which effectively killed the careers of those actors in the middle of a rare run in TV seldom seen before. The irony of Jackie Gleason picked up the bones of the show to create mega hit The Honeymooners was probably lost on the naacp then and now.

The black establishment then that included naacp publicly disavowed JJ for casting aspersions on black folk in general.

What I'm saying if JJ took any celebrity stage roles then, it wouldn't have been out of character for him or anyone to be in blackface.

[Ivich]

Johnson knew he would beat Burns when he signed to fight Langford, it was inevitable given Burns was only 5’7” and weighed only 168 for his fight with Johnson due to an illness that was either jaundice or flu. Another woefully outsized opponent that would become a notch on Johnson’s belt.

Had Johnson truly wanted to fight Langford, McVea or Jeanette he would have done so, and as you said, he had multiple lucrative offers but somehow it didn’t happen. When he agreed to fight Battling Jim for far less than $5K and was closer to $1K (and almost lost) but turned down an offer earlier that year to fight Jeanette for $20K, that should have been enough for anyone to be convinced he was ducking them. Imagine Fury turning down $100 million to fight Joshua so he can fight Charles Martin for $10 million instead. Not a good look.

NOPE! Burns weighed 168 for 2 other title defences1 was against Jem Roche.Burns trained in public having sparring sessions for all to watch he was reported to be in top shape by writers and said himself," I am in perfect condition and ready to do myself justice".Burns did not have jaundice or flu that's a load of BS. He was a close friend of the promoter and as champion could have had the fight postponed if he was not in shape.
It's another lie Mendoza has been perpetuating for years.
Johnson's price to fight the black trio was $30,000 when it was met he signed and that is a matter of record that you cannot get around no matter how hard you try!
Johnson was not a matchmaker he was a fighter ,it was not up to him to make fights.
Instead of fighting Langford for $9000 in the UK and having to pay his own travel and training expenses he fought Flynn in the US for $31,500 and a percentage of the fight films silly of him wasn't it?lol
If you want to blame anyone for Johnson's failure to defend against the 3 best black challengers blame your countrymen the good old White American Public
"Two blacks fighting for the heavyweight title aint worth a bucket of piss" Tex Rickard Promoter
"Two blacks fighting for the title wouldnt draw flies"Jack Curley Promoter
"There is no coin in two colored men boxing for the heavyweight crown" Sunny Jim Coffroth Promoter
NY Garden AC Promoter Billy Gibson offered Johnson $25,000 to defend against Jeannette over 10rds.
Johnson held out for $30,000 plus3 roud trip tickets on the train ,it was an18hour journey.
" I dont care who you name to fight me,my price will be the same for my services or I wont appear."
Johnson San Francisco Examiner July 26th 1912
"New York does not like me and I don't like New York.That is the reason I will,not lower my price to box there.
They wont let me fight a white man in that town,but expect .
The reason they won't let me on with a white man is because they know I can beat Palzer and all the rest of them in one ring on the same night.
However this fellow Jeannette will be just as easy,I can punch holes in Joe for ten rounds ,and dont be surprised if I stop him.
Ill be tickled to death to show New York how easy Jeannette is if I get my $30,000"Jack Johnson
San Francisco Examiner July 27th 1912
Johnson signs to fight Jeannette in a 10 rounder at the St Nicholas Club for the McMahon brothers.August 14th 1912
Johnson has a $25,000 guarantee plus if the gate receipts go over $60,000 he would get $30,000 plus 25% of any amount over $60,000,plus Johnson would get a one half interest in the fight films.

Johnson said he weighed 242lbs,and only needed to lose 10lbs to get down to 230lbs for a 10 rounder.
" I whipped that fellow 3 times and can do it every day just for fun.The only time he ever did make a showing with me I was under wraps a bit.You know i had a hard time getting matches those days.
But believe me when I say I'll convince the public I am still a great fighter,by whipping the life out of that fellow,
I expect to make more than$30,000 too"Johnson
The Salt Lake Tribune said Johnson's claim that he was under wraps when he fought Jeannette was true.
Salt Lake Tribune August15th 1912


I'm beginning to think you are an ALT of Mendoza, you both propagate the same lies, though you don't make his weird spelling howlers,he once referred to Sam Langford as Sang Froid!

[Dr. Z]

You have made unproven allegations about Ivich. That speaks to your lack of credability. Whether an alt, or not, not my concern, some of the other accusations that you make deserve some proof.

The proof on what he said is within another boxing message board , and it wouldn't be proper to post it here. He has admitted to being a free mason, just like I said. Giving money to a group some consider a *********s group he has also done and he's proud of it. What did I say that you want information on? Examples please? Your right accusations deserve proof. I will give them, and some of them depending on him being honest about what said here.

[Ivich]

You have made unproven allegations about Ivich. That speaks to your lack of credability. Whether an alt, or not, not my concern, some of the other accusations that you make deserve some proof.

Careful B , you might be accused of being an Alt!

[Ivich]

The proof on what he said is within another boxing message board , and it wouldn't be proper to post it here. He has admitted to being a free mason, just like I said. Giving money to a group some consider a *********s group he has also done and he's proud of it. What did I say that you want information on? Examples please? Your right accusations deserve proof. I will give them, and some of them depend on him being honest about what said here.

I am a Free Mason and proud to be one.My lodge has raised thousands of pounds for charity our particular charity being for handicapped children.
WTF have you ever done for others less fortunate than yourself?
Whilst Nelson Mandela was the leader of the ANC I was a member because I believe all men are created equal and that aparthied was fundamentally wrong and a grave injustice to the black peoples of South Africa.
Mandela, by his courageous stand, righted that wrong and changed the world forever.
I am likewise proud to have contributed in my own small way to the demise of that ugly racist ideology called APARTHIED.
It is a tragedy that with Mandela's passing the ANC lost it's way, but mission accomplished since Mandela's death I no longer have any connection to the party.
I've invited anyone who has the slightest interest in my history to PM me.I've nothing to hide and I'm only mentioning all this to pre-empt any more attempts at smearing me by you,
I invite you to post anything I've said on any other forums that you think portrays me in a bad light.
PLEASE DO SO! You've made several unfounded allegations about me and Free Masonry devil worshipping and *****phila,being mentioned by you.

Now it's time for you to show some PROOF of them! Where is the EVIDENCE?
I know you for what you are and despise you for it.
Posters here will make up their own minds about you,I made up mind long ago!

[Dr. Z]

I am a Free Mason and proud to be one.My lodge has raised thousands of pounds for charity our particular charity being for handicapped children.
WTF have you ever done for others less fortunate than yourself?
Whilst Nelson Mandela was the leader of the ANC I was a member because I believe all men are created equal and that aparthied was fundamentally wrong and a grave injustice to the black peoples of South Africa.
Mandela, by his courageous stand, righted that wrong and changed the world forever.
I am likewise proud to have contributed in my own small way to the demise of that ugly racist ideology called APARTHIED.
It is a tragedy that with Mandela's passing the ANC lost it's way, but mission accomplished since Mandela's death I no longer have any connection to the party.
I've invited anyone who has the slightest interest in my history to PM me.I've nothing to hide and I'm only mentioning all this to pre-empt any more attempts at smearing me by you,
I invite you to post anything I've said on any other forums that you think portrays me in a bad light.
PLEASE DO SO! You've made several unfounded allegations about me and Free Masonry devil worshipping and *****phila,being mentioned by you.

Now it's time for you to show some PROOF of them! Where is the EVIDENCE?
I know you for what you are and despise you for it.
Posters here will make up their own minds about you,I made up mind long ago!

So what I said is true. He is a free mason, and had given money to a questionable group. Neither would be revealed to the board if I didn't mention it. I have asked you before, what level mason are you? You are still hiding that information. I have said nothing false about your claims. You right on one thing, people can make up their own mind. Once again, what level mason are you?


https://globalnews.ca/news/5201623/n...-south-africa/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u...flna2d11708787