For you, who won the Hagler vs Leonard fight?

[The Old LefHook]

Hagler lost easily. Anyone not seeing it that way has their bias in full swing. Leonard easily swept the first four rounds while Hagler was idiot orthodox.

Leonard was afraid to do a rematch. The psychological mojo would not have worked a second time. Hagler would have come in as the killer beast everyone expected the first time. Leonard knew this, and wanted no part of it. Gentleman Ray was actually a perfect psychopath, selfishly consistent in denying timely rematches to all dangerous fighters he beat, caring nothing for fans, the sport or his opponents.

As for styles, Leonard would probably gain exactly the same kind of victory over Marciano, who would never be hurt either, whereas Tunney would hunt down and murder the Marylander.

Hagler was a rotten ring general, and he proved it many times. You could make a case for Leonard being the best ring general ever. Along with the speed disparity and Hagler's hidden psychological vulnerabilities, the bout was too much for him. In a rematch he would have come like a Kamikaze pilot. I think that scared the hell out of Leonard. Besides, for a psychopath there was always an element of satisfaction and victory in simply denying them what they wanted more than anything else--the chance to recoup their legacies. But he would never give them that. He liked not giving them that, in my opinion. People wonder why he is disliked so intensely by so many. They were probably not around in the day to see it firsthand. Still, he built a hell of a legacy because he beat some really, really great fighters in or close to their primes. This is something Mayweather never did, and why he will be hated and demoted much more than Leonard. In fact, Mayweather really does not have the legacy he thinks he has, in my opinion.

[Curryfan85]

Hagler lost easily. Anyone not seeing it that way has their bias in full swing. Leonard easily swept the first four rounds while Hagler was idiot orthodox.

Leonard was afraid to do a rematch. The psychological mojo would not have worked a second time. Hagler would have come in as the killer beast everyone expected the first time. Leonard knew this, and wanted no part of it. Gentleman Ray was actually a perfect psychopath, selfishly consistent in denying timely rematches to all dangerous fighters he beat, caring nothing for fans, the sport or his opponents.

As for styles, Leonard would probably gain exactly the same kind of victory over Marciano, who would never be hurt either, whereas Tunney would hunt down and murder the Marylander.

Hagler was a rotten ring general, and he proved it many times. You could make a case for Leonard being the best ring general ever. Along with the speed disparity and Hagler's hidden psychological vulnerabilities, the bout was too much for him. In a rematch he would have come like a Kamikaze pilot. I think that scared the hell out of Leonard. Besides, for a psychopath there was always an element of satisfaction and victory in simply denying them what they wanted more than anything else--the chance to recoup their legacies. But he would never give them that. He liked not giving them that, in my opinion. People wonder why he is disliked so intensely by so many. They were probably not around in the day to see it firsthand. Still, he built a hell of a legacy because he beat some really, really great fighters in or close to their primes. This is something Mayweather never did, and why he will be hated and demoted much more than Leonard. In fact, Mayweather really does not have the legacy he thinks he has, in my opinion.

I agree with so much of this. Basically I've always thought of Leonard as just plain outthinking Hagler. Brilliant tactician and manipulator versus a guy who could be tricked easily. Marvin trying to be cute the first 4 rounds and giving them away ends any argument, IMO, that he actually won the fight.

One thing I didn't care for about Leonard is that he had no intention of giving Tommy Hearns another fight. Then when he thought Hearns was 1/2 dead after the Kinchen fight in 1988 he suddenly was all in for another fight. He absolutely cherry picked that fight looking to further torment Hearns. Just glad it bit him in the ass that night.

[VegasMichael]

Marvin was tired of fighting at this point. He actually wanted to retire after the Mugabi fight(which was a tough battle). His handlers talked him into fighting Leonard.

[TonyGe]

Hagler. Leonard didn't fight in a lot of the rounds except for the last few seconds.

[TonyGe]

I agree with so much of this. Basically I've always thought of Leonard as just plain outthinking Hagler. Brilliant tactician and manipulator versus a guy who could be tricked easily. Marvin trying to be cute the first 4 rounds and giving them away ends any argument, IMO, that he actually won the fight.

One thing I didn't care for about Leonard is that he had no intention of giving Tommy Hearns another fight. Then when he thought Hearns was 1/2 dead after the Kinchen fight in 1988 he suddenly was all in for another fight. He absolutely cherry picked that fight looking to further torment Hearns. Just glad it bit him in the ass that night.

Yeah I used to think that but Leonard readily admitted that Tommy beat him in the rematch.

[johnbook]

Leonard clearly won.

But Hagler did not just fight unwisely, his punches seemed to have lost pop.

SRL should nonetheless be given great praise. After was it 3 years off, moved up in weight and challenged one of the best, if not the best, MWs in history.

He was never gonna KO Hagler, but he outboxed him.

[Anthony342]

Hagler lost easily. Anyone not seeing it that way has their bias in full swing. Leonard easily swept the first four rounds while Hagler was idiot orthodox.

Leonard was afraid to do a rematch. The psychological mojo would not have worked a second time. Hagler would have come in as the killer beast everyone expected the first time. Leonard knew this, and wanted no part of it. Gentleman Ray was actually a perfect psychopath, selfishly consistent in denying timely rematches to all dangerous fighters he beat, caring nothing for fans, the sport or his opponents.

As for styles, Leonard would probably gain exactly the same kind of victory over Marciano, who would never be hurt either, whereas Tunney would hunt down and murder the Marylander.

Hagler was a rotten ring general, and he proved it many times. You could make a case for Leonard being the best ring general ever. Along with the speed disparity and Hagler's hidden psychological vulnerabilities, the bout was too much for him. In a rematch he would have come like a Kamikaze pilot. I think that scared the hell out of Leonard. Besides, for a psychopath there was always an element of satisfaction and victory in simply denying them what they wanted more than anything else--the chance to recoup their legacies. But he would never give them that. He liked not giving them that, in my opinion. People wonder why he is disliked so intensely by so many. They were probably not around in the day to see it firsthand. Still, he built a hell of a legacy because he beat some really, really great fighters in or close to their primes. This is something Mayweather never did, and why he will be hated and demoted much more than Leonard. In fact, Mayweather really does not have the legacy he thinks he has, in my opinion.

Or the legacy Mayweather's fans think he has, wearing those TBE caps. And you're right about Leonard not wanting to give them the chance to recoup their legacies. Look how long he waited to give Hearns and Duran rematches after he beat them. It's not even opinion anymore, it's a fact. Did you see the ESPN 30 For 30 documentary titled No Mas? It was mostly about the second Leonard-Duran fight, but, of course, also talked about their first fight, a little about their third fight years later and their legacies and both were interviewed and they were even shown talking to each other. At one point Duran even asks Leonard why he waited so long to give sign up for that third fight and Leonard says something like "Because I could". Even that second fight was only 5 months after the first because Ray wanted it quickly, knowing the problems Duran had with cutting weight. With all this crap he pulled, this is why a lot of people don't like Leonard. But he still has the Hearns and Benitez wins at least and Duran 2 is still a good win.

[Sinbad]

I watched the fight on live tv right after returning from a trip in Europe.
Hagler was my absolute favorite to win.
Suffering from jet lag and being tired but enthusiastic, i was kinda stunned how well Leonard had prepared.
I had it crearly for Sugar Ray although it was pretty close.
I think Hagler was not the same after the Mugabi fight. Maybe it took too much away from him.

[Anthony342]

I watched the fight on live tv right after returning from a trip in Europe.
Hagler was my absolute favorite to win.
Suffering from jet lag and being tired but enthusiastic, i was kinda stunned how well Leonard had prepared.
I had it crearly for Sugar Ray although it was pretty close.
I think Hagler was not the same after the Mugabi fight. Maybe it took too much away from him.

It did and Leonard knew it. He was in attendance and saw Hagler wasn't the same, saw he was slowed down just enough finally, so Leonard finally challenged Hagler for the middleweight title. Leonard clearly won, even though it was close and then he had to pull another ploy by retiring again, instead of giving Hagler a rematch and then coming out of retirement after Hagler retired. Punk moves, both of them.

[Sinbad]

True. When some upcoming fighters wanted to challenge Hagler, i remember Hagler said:
- Let them fight the mugabis first before they talk to me.
And Hagler sure as hell wasn't just bitter for the Vegas judges, he was bitter for Leonard never giving him a rematch.