Marciano 49-0 vs. Mayweather 49-0.

[billeau2]

I said list me 10 people you consider a boxing expert or knows about boxing who thought Pacquaio won.

What you have done there is list me to articles that reference fan made punch stats.

You have Holyfield. That's one.

Give me 4 more.

You want me to give you 50 that had Mayweather winning? Because I can do that off the top of my head. Infact, I could probably give you 100.

I showed that the fight was contraversal by using a standard you brought up: the press. There were other fighters, is that who you consider an expert lol? who thought pac won and you know that.

My contention is not that Pac won, it is that the fight was contraversal and Mayweather snuck by, he did not show that he was the dominant force against another guy who was in the same class, though an older version.

I showed that point to you by showing that the press was ambivalent, and that there were opinions about the fight showing that ambivalence, thats all I really need to show.

[billeau2]

I typed in Boxing News 24 Mayweather Pacquaio decison in google and nothing came up. Do you have a source for the WHOLE of the editoral staff having Pacquao winning as I find that extremely hard to believe.

A spanish TV station had Pacquaio winning. Ok but who are they?

The fact of the matter is 99% of the media on press row had Mayweather winning and 0% had Pacquaio winning. I can not name 5 boxing people who had Pacquaio winning yet I can reel off name after name who had Mayweather winning becsuse almost everyone had Mayweather winning because he clearly won the fight.

You say "the announcers" but the overwhelming consensus agree with the announcers so perhaps it's yourself that sounds like you are on drugs.

Your pretending that there was not a vocal group that thought the fight was either a draw, Pac won, or was just a glorified game of tag. Thats really the point. If one can do a basic search and show these sentiments then it shows that they exist.

The point is that Mayweather could have been given a draw in that fight, and he could have potentially lost that fight according to judges and nobody would have cried robbery. Compare that to the Jones victory over Mccallum, or compare that to Ward winning against Kovalev the second fight.

By trying to create a red herring, namely that Mayweather legitimately could be called the winner of the fight, something I always granted you, you are trying to obscure the basic fact that his performance was lacking.

[billeau2]

I am not even convinced there was a fight between Pac and Mayweather. I saw it, but no one has convinced me it was a fight. It was exhibition match level, that's all.

Here is the fact: Mayweather's highlight reel will suck compared to other ATG's. No punch is what he had. That removes a lot of luster right there.

He did beat Pacquiao easily, though. As usual, instead of beating his man to pieces and putting on a good show, all he did was win by the minimum margin necessary. That seems to have been his great trick. His usual mode of operation was to nearly completely shut the other guy's offense down, and then hit him as little as necessary to still win. Not too entertaining.

Historians are going to scratch their heads trying to figure out how MW sold all those PPV's. Then they will remember millions of thugs with their baseball caps on back'ards who can barely read and write, too.

This post paints a picture of what I am trying to say here. I don't agree that he shut down much, if one looks both guys had a few moments, neither guy seemed to show that the other was capable of doing anything that materially affected the other guy.

Depending on the judges and what was looked at this fight could have had many scores. Ray Leonard when he was beat bt Duran made him quit...thats an ATG performance. Hagler against Hearns, thats an ATG performance. etc etc

[IronDanHamza]

I showed that the fight was contraversal by using a standard you brought up: the press. There were other fighters, is that who you consider an expert lol? who thought pac won and you know that.

My contention is not that Pac won, it is that the fight was contraversal and Mayweather snuck by, he did not show that he was the dominant force against another guy who was in the same class, though an older version.

I showed that point to you by showing that the press was ambivalent, and that there were opinions about the fight showing that ambivalence, thats all I really need to show.

No it's not because all you showed me was articles written by people I have never heard of citing a fan made video.

When I mention media I am talking about press row which are actual boxing writers.

Oh and 0% had Pacquaio winning I.e the fight was NOT controversial.

[IronDanHamza]

This post paints a picture of what I am trying to say here. I don't agree that he shut down much, if one looks both guys had a few moments, neither guy seemed to show that the other was capable of doing anything that materially affected the other guy.

Depending on the judges and what was looked at this fight could have had many scores. Ray Leonard when he was beat bt Duran made him quit...thats an ATG performance. Hagler against Hearns, thats an ATG performance. etc etc

ATG performance or not he won the fight clearly.

[KidDinamita]

IMO, Floyd's resume might be better in terms of names.

But Marciano did that in much less years - 8 years, compared to Mayweather - 21 years (counting McGregory fight as well).

Both have good resume though

[Anthony342]

I am not even convinced there was a fight between Pac and Mayweather. I saw it, but no one has convinced me it was a fight. It was exhibition match level, that's all.

Here is the fact: Mayweather's highlight reel will suck compared to other ATG's. No punch is what he had. That removes a lot of luster right there.

He did beat Pacquiao easily, though. As usual, instead of beating his man to pieces and putting on a good show, all he did was win by the minimum margin necessary. That seems to have been his great trick. His usual mode of operation was to nearly completely shut the other guy's offense down, and then hit him as little as necessary to still win. Not too entertaining.

Historians are going to scratch their heads trying to figure out how MW sold all those PPV's. Then they will remember millions of thugs with their baseball caps on back'ards who can barely read and write, too.

It's interesting you mention Mayweather winning by mostly shutting the opponent's offense down and then scoring minimal hits to win. A former World Chess Champion named Tigran Petrosian had a similar style, preferring to play defense mostly, with minimal attack, and opting to save most of his offense for the endgame. I just realized Mayweather, at least in his later years, now reminds me of Petrosian.

[Poet682006]

It's interesting you mention Mayweather winning by mostly shutting the opponent's offense down and then scoring minimal hits to win. A former World Chess Champion named Tigran Petrosian had a similar style, preferring to play defense mostly, with minimal attack, and opting to save most of his offense for the endgame. I just realized Mayweather, at least in his later years, now reminds me of Petrosian.

Petrosian got crushed by Fischer though. In the end his all-defense, all the time tactics were self defeating.

[billeau2]

No it's not because all you showed me was articles written by people I have never heard of citing a fan made video.

When I mention media I am talking about press row which are actual boxing writers.

Oh and 0% had Pacquaio winning I.e the fight was NOT controversial.

Ok fair enough. I don't think boxing writers qualify a experts... I have written and published boxing articles...Do you consider me an expert?

I will concede that this distinction has merit.

[billeau2]

ATG performance or not he won the fight clearly.

Thats BS Dan... I can grant you that It was a credible decision. I can grant you that perhaps a theocracy of boxing elites may have had Floyd winning even... But even those individuals when pressed, I would be willing to bet would say that Floyd did not win the fight in a convincing fashion, in a fashion that showed he was materially better than Manny P.

I know this because it is the sentiment that has been expressed all over the internet. Sure elite trainers had their points of view, but there is a consensus about how both guys performed during the fight.