How much does that 50lbs of muscle matter between HW of the 80s and now?

[New England]

50 lbs of muscle? even the HW who are ripped to the bone [wilder and joshua] don't have 50 more lbs of muscle.

lamon brewster knocked wladimir klitshcko around the ring, and he was the exact dimensions of joe louis, just with about 10-15 extra lbs of fat around the waist and hips. maybe he had 3-5 extra lbs of muscle. maybe. and you saw what he did to wladimir's brains. scrambled them.

[kafkod]

Foreman went up about 50 lbs (260+lbs) when he came back into the modern era, did it increase his punching power? If so by how much? (give a rough %)

What if he was 217lbs like he was in his prime? Would he have done better or worse?

Do guys like a young foreman really hit harder than guys like Lewis(255), Bowe(271lbs), , and Wlad (240)?

If you take guys like young foreman, Lyle, norton etc and give them 50 lbs extra muscle I think they hit harder than the big modern guys, but without that 50lbs of muscle im not confident they do.

What do you guys think?



I think they definately were better genetically for power, back in the 80's but that superiority is somewhat mitigated by the sheer mass of the modern heavyweights. Im not sure why they got bigger I know some of its weight training and nutrition.

Not sure what you mean by this. Men in their 20's and 30's today are, on average, bigger than their fathers were at the same age - not 50lbs of muscle bigger doe - but that's because of differences in diet, not genetics.

If you are saying that modern HW boxing favours a different genetic type than the 80's style, then yes, I can agree with that.

Having 50lbs more muscle than the opponent is an advantage to a HW - but only if he knows how to use it properly. If he doesn't know how to use it properly, the extra strength and power will be off-set by stamina problems.

Since the 80's, with the average size of HW's increasing steadily, boxing coaches have developed new styles and techniques which allow really big guy's to use their size more efficiently. Manny Steward was a pioneer in that respect. That's what's changed since the 80's.

[Anthony342]

50 lbs of muscle? even the HW who are ripped to the bone [wilder and joshua] don't have 50 more lbs of muscle.

lamon brewster knocked wladimir klitshcko around the ring, and he was the exact dimensions of joe louis, just with about 10-15 extra lbs of fat around the waist and hips. maybe he had 3-5 extra lbs of muscle. maybe. and you saw what he did to wladimir's brains. scrambled them.

Hey man, where you been? Missed your insights on here.

[kafkod]

Not sure what you mean by this. Men in their 20's and 30's today are, on average, bigger than their fathers were at the same age - not 50lbs of muscle bigger doe - but that's because of differences in diet, not genetics.

If you are saying that modern HW boxing favours a different genetic type than the 80's style, then yes, I can agree with that.

Having 50lbs more muscle than the opponent is an advantage to a HW - but only if he knows how to use it properly. If he doesn't know how to use it properly, the extra strength and power will be off-set by stamina problems.

Since the 80's, with the average size of HW's increasing steadily, boxing coaches have developed new styles and techniques which allow really big guy's to use their size more efficiently. Manny Steward was a pioneer in that respect. That's what's changed since the 80's.

There is a reason guys like Marciano and Frazier and other past greats shunned weights and size in order to come in the ring smaller. Excess size makes your heart work harder and you are slower overall. You simply can't hit as hard if you're exhausted and you will not be as effective and will be slower with excess size whether it's muscle or fat. This is why you don't see fights likev Ali-Frazier in the heavyweight division any more. Wlad has been the best fighter in the division for 10 years. He is huge, muscular and had decent athleticism. No way he can or could have ever gotten into a hard paced war of attrition. Vits-Lewis outlines this perfectly. Both guys were huge, strong heavies...both were exhausted after 5 rounds. Being massive doesn't always pay dividends as a heavyweight, at least as I see it.

Sorry to quote myself but this post illustrates what I was saying in my first comment.

Before he hooked up with Manny Steward, Wlad was trying to fight like an 80's HW, but he was way too big to pull it off, and look what happened - 3 stoppage defeats.

Manny remodelled his style and approach, and Wlad was invincible till he came up against somebody even bigger than him.

Vitali vs Lennex was an example of 2 modern era sized HW's going to war against each other 80's style. And yeah, both were gassed after 5/6 rounds!

[Ray Corso]

kafkod.."Vitali vs Lennex was an example of 2 modern era sized HW's going to war against each other 80's style. And yeah, both were gassed after 5/6 rounds"!

Seriously do you plan this dribble out or do you make it up as your writing it?

Lewis was gassed because he was far from his prime and trained like an old dog. Vitali gassed because he doesn't know how to train as a pro fighter. The Klitz bros train as if their going to compete in a decathlon. Their "sportman"!

He got stopped because he fought someone who didn't back down and rocked his chin bye bye......

Then they learned how to match them accordingly along with the entire era being weak.

Ray

[juggernaut666]

Lennox Lewis: When you say “hardest fight in my career,” Vitali was definitely the – when I say “hard fight,” he was a guy that I had to figure out. And when I say “figure out,” the man wasn’t easy to hit. Plus, he was way taller than me and had longer arms than me.

So – and my last major opponent before that was Mike Tyson, so to adapt to his different qualities, such as the height and the reach, was a challenge to me. So he was – he was a big challenge and one of the toughest fights.

Size will always be an advantage win or lose...one of the biggest least skilled guys of the 80's was Bone Crusher smith who weighed as much as 250 sometimes and stood 6'4/6'5.......he gave almost everyone a hard time despite lack of speed or refined skilled. just watch the Ruddock fight from 1987. The 1990's ushered in more refined guys than the 80's and averaged 230 pounds and around 6'3 and a few 6'5 guys over 230 wasn't rare anymore.

Compare Bowe at 6'5 235 to Smith at 6'4 240 and that's the differance in level.......



How does one of the hardest SHW to actually defeat look like ?...heres REAL trainers perspectives..... Vitali klitchko

Emanuel Steward (2005): “He does have the skill. And he’s very effective in an awkward way. He has an unusual gift that I’ve watched it in training, that really sets him out greatly. Not from being big, he has a little bit of the clumsiness to a degree, he’s not as physically coordinated as his younger brother. But he has this unusual sense of feeling a punch before it comes – but can still move in an awkward direction as far as to neutralize it – and throwing a weird punch at the same time. I saw him do that in the gym so effectively. And its something that can’t be taught. You can just feel the guy getting ready to throw a left hook and he’ll throw a counterpunch, like, from underneath the left hook and move his body at angles that I haven’t seen. And that’s what makes him effective. He’s very effective with that style.”


Vitali was on the way to becoming champion against Lennox Lewis, the fight shouldn’t have been stopped. But, you know, that’s boxing sometimes. The cut wasn’t in a dangerous place. It wasn’t bleeding into the eye. The younger brother, in my mind, is the better fighter. He’s got so many tools, he throws straight punches. Especially that left hand. He must be a converted southpaw.” A. Dundee



The smaller 80's guys that averaged 6'2 215 would lose to fighters now and particularly the 90's.


@ New England ....what fight were you watching? Wlad literally battered Brewster until mysteriously he gassed out of no where around the 5th round...later it was found he had hypoglycemia....the rematch Wlad battered him so bad he retired.

[Anthony342]

Sorry to quote myself but this post illustrates what I was saying in my first comment.

Before he hooked up with Manny Steward, Wlad was trying to fight like an 80's HW, but he was way too big to pull it off, and look what happened - 3 stoppage defeats.

Manny remodelled his style and approach, and Wlad was invincible till he came up against somebody even bigger than him.

Vitali vs Lennex was an example of 2 modern era sized HW's going to war against each other 80's style. And yeah, both were gassed after 5/6 rounds!

Plus Manny being deceased and no longer in Wlad's corner most likely played a factor as well. Steward might have been able to either help Wlad make adjustments during the fight or at least motivate him to be aggressive sooner and go for the stoppage or at least some knockdowns to win on points.

[The Old LefHook]

When was the last time you remember 50 lbs. of muscle losing, eh?

[Ray Corso]

"How much does that 50lbs of muscle matter between HW of the 80s and now"?


It doesn't matter at all because 50lbs of muscle is a ridiculous statement.
Maybe 50 between a super fly but if you think Fury has 50 pounds of muscle over Mike Tyson your insane! In fact he doesn't have any over Mike!

What adjustments could come from the corner? The guy is circling you and you need to cut the ring off and throw punches! After 60 fights I would think you would have learned basics. He was afraid to get hit, thats what happened watch the fight!!!

Ray

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Lennox Lewis: When you say “hardest fight in my career,” Vitali was definitely the – when I say “hard fight,” he was a guy that I had to figure out. And when I say “figure out,” the man wasn’t easy to hit. Plus, he was way taller than me and had longer arms than me.

So – and my last major opponent before that was Mike Tyson, so to adapt to his different qualities, such as the height and the reach, was a challenge to me. So he was – he was a big challenge and one of the toughest fights.

Size will always be an advantage win or lose...one of the biggest least skilled guys of the 80's was Bone Crusher smith who weighed as much as 250 sometimes and stood 6'4/6'5.......he gave almost everyone a hard time despite lack of speed or refined skilled. just watch the Ruddock fight from 1987. The 1990's ushered in more refined guys than the 80's and averaged 230 pounds and around 6'3 and a few 6'5 guys over 230 wasn't rare anymore.

Compare Bowe at 6'5 235 to Smith at 6'4 240 and that's the differance in level.......



How does one of the hardest SHW to actually defeat look like ?...heres REAL trainers perspectives..... Vitali klitchko

Emanuel Steward (2005): “He does have the skill. And he’s very effective in an awkward way. He has an unusual gift that I’ve watched it in training, that really sets him out greatly. Not from being big, he has a little bit of the clumsiness to a degree, he’s not as physically coordinated as his younger brother. But he has this unusual sense of feeling a punch before it comes – but can still move in an awkward direction as far as to neutralize it – and throwing a weird punch at the same time. I saw him do that in the gym so effectively. And its something that can’t be taught. You can just feel the guy getting ready to throw a left hook and he’ll throw a counterpunch, like, from underneath the left hook and move his body at angles that I haven’t seen. And that’s what makes him effective. He’s very effective with that style.”


Vitali was on the way to becoming champion against Lennox Lewis, the fight shouldn’t have been stopped. But, you know, that’s boxing sometimes. The cut wasn’t in a dangerous place. It wasn’t bleeding into the eye. The younger brother, in my mind, is the better fighter. He’s got so many tools, he throws straight punches. Especially that left hand. He must be a converted southpaw.” A. Dundee



The smaller 80's guys that averaged 6'2 215 would lose to fighters now and particularly the 90's.


@ New England ....what fight were you watching? Wlad literally battered Brewster until mysteriously he gassed out of no where around the 5th round...later it was found he had hypoglycemia....the rematch Wlad battered him so bad he retired.

Are there any other sources for these quotes? Like a video or book?

Boxing Insider doesn't provide an author nor sources for the quotes other than claiming they said it. Not reliable.