Roy Jones Jr's alleged "weak opposition"

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Roy also said after his KO loss to Tarver, "This is what I get for giving the fans what they want."

That quote kind of sums up what his opinion was of seeking the best fights. He's Hall of Fame bound for sure. So it doesn't really matter. When the media blows somebody up, often times, it doesn't matter that much who they are fighting as long as they are looking good. Look at Wilder's last fight. All of a sudden, he's the best thing since sliced bread after struggling with a mediocre opponent.

And, no. I don't think Roy is ad as Wilder. I definitely give him the edge.

[The Old LefHook]

Jones? If ten or eleven punches per round by the winning fighter is your bowl of berries, go for it. I find his fights (most of which I endured in real time) to be drudgery to review on YouTube.

Despite being the most naturally talented athlete to ever fight in a ring, he was boring, and he still is. Now that he gets KO'd every other encounter his fights have more excitement. Wrong-way Roy.

Why do I disrespect him so much? Because he disrespected the fan, and he was conscious of that. He did not knock off who he should have knocked off when he should have. I don't have to, was the attittude. Screw y'all. Did he miss some ATG's? Maybe not, but he missed some guys who were a fair bit better than good, while merely good represents the bulk of his resume best.

Hotshot who reveled in his ability and pulled stunts like playing a full basketball game the afternoon of a fight, instead of looking up the best competetition, forcing a fight, and eliminating all doubt. Force them to fight or show themselves as mere hecklers after press.

He gets credit for what he did, not for what someone thinks he could have or would have done. This is only fair, and applies to all champions or plain boxers.

He beat a few very high quality fighters along the way to turning himself into the Meadowlark Lemon of boxing. He beat semi-green Hopkins, he beat Prime Toney. He missed more fighters approaching their quality than he hit. Do I care why? Of course not. He missed them. He did not do them. He does not get credit for Michalzewski, Collins, Benn or Calzaghe.

Being cheated in the Olympics might have turned Roy into a chicken xenophobe. He had a chance to be the greatest boxing champion ever. He can get those guys to come to his yard for some price, with a little sacrifice out of his own purse.

When you already have everything within your grasp, you are already rich, when your greatness seems unparalled, you have nothing but legacy to strive for, if you are thinking clearly. Testosterone is known to get in the way of clear thinking, however. Roy believed his own press. He was invincible. He made merely good fighters look like awful scrubs. He thought it was all settled about his ATGness. But it wasn't.

Fans started to notice who he was not fighting, not who he was. He fought a few plumbers and shoe clerks.

Doing just as they please becomes a taunt to the establishment and a not altogether inadvertant tease to the fans themselves as part of the establishent, to thumb your nose at. It was a behavioral habit of his as a boxing prima donna to withhold, as a flex of his power. Mayweather played the same game of disrespect with his fans, but that is another thread.

Thread is the right word. When you thread your way too carefully through a great career, your ATG legacy pays a fine in the halls of history. Simple as that. Jones is an all time great in spite of himself, and not really a fringe one, either, as say Toney, but at least a mid-level one. But he coulda done better and shoulda done better, as in seeking what seemed the best challenges of the time. Face it: Playing the mandatories game with three A B C's is not going to land you the most awesome opportunities to extend your ATGness legacy and show your wares thoroughly under heat, and that is as close to a fact as words can get.

One thing he did do was get knocked out a lot after his super reflexes were gone. Once exposed, his chin seemd frighteningly fragile. In boxing it is common to lose a string of fights near the end, and often by KO. Even so, the fragilty of Roy's chin is more alarming than most cases I have seen.

As far as su****ions go, mine is that his chin was fragile all along but super reflexes protected it. Though it is only a su****ion, I have to give it some credence in AT mythical matchups along with my other su****ion that the caliber of Tunney and Charles and Foster would find that chin and test it somewhere along the way. For all we know a Calzaghe would have slap-tested it to smithereens.

An ATG, but he should have striven for more when he had the chance, which would have given the fans and his legacy more to crow about, rooster man.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Lmao at this thread and Dan's other thread... Dude has lost his mind...


Downgrading toney

Hyping roy...


Lmao

Your giving credit for roy beating REGGIE johnson... Lol,, a career 154-160 fighter, and you hypin roy beating him at 175 a decade later... But wants to discount toney's won over REGGIE because he struggled... Maybe he should have just fought him much higher in weight at the end of his career like roy did... Your fanboy ass will give roy credit for fighting a faded ass 154 champ at 175, but then downgrade toney's win when REGGIE was in his prime and at his best weight..


If you watched boxong throughout Roy's career, you would know that this dude took one big fight in his prime and nothing else..

Your ass in other threads tried to be a revisionist history and claim roy-hopkins was "clearly battle of the two top middleweights". Lmao,,,,,, hopkins was nothing more than a regional chamo club fighter at best when roy fought him for a vacant belt... Similar to how Charles Martin just fought for a vacant belt...

Since you want to downgrade toney's career, I will ask you this..

What is Roy's best wins from the toney fight in 94-2003.. guy was a superstar and the money man, with an hbo contract and was the best possible fight for any opponent, could make any fight he wanted..band didn't deliver a big fight for nearly a decade..

Yet your the same dude that craps all over calzaghe.. Lmao... Match Roy's lightheavy opponents vs joes 168-175 opponents.. There is little difference..

I can't tell if your just trolling or you actually believe the crap your saying..

Roy was great but coasted for the majority of his career, that's why he never hit stardom like floyd or Oscar. His resume is filled with Berto's, ghost Guerrero, etc but no Canelo's

Only a fanboy can hype up roy beating 40 year Reggie and mccallum, old ass virgil hill that already got outboxed by old Hearns and beaten down by daruisz


ROY TOOK ONE BIG FIGHT IN HIS CAREER VS TONEY... That's the facts.. Hopkins was a nobody that turned out to be somebody a decade later, if you watched bixing back then you would know, unless your a fanboy

Ever notice how roy wasn't that spectacular when fighting legit competition..


Name the prime fighter that roy blew out and stopped..

Sure he was great vs Vinny paz, del Valle, old hill, Otis, etc

Floyd even says you a cherrypicker..



Literally how can you go from nov of 94 to May of 03 and not fight anyone of note or PPv worthy...... But you want to claim roy had great competition.. Lmao, trying to hype vaca and Castro,,, basically the baldomirs of the 90s

For real, I can't tell if your trolling or for real... But if your for real and toney is overrated and roy fought murderer's row, then your a fanboy idiot..


Name the star in boxing that went a decade without a big fights even though they had hbo money behind any fight... Guys like floyd, roy, wlad, chavez jr, canelo, Oscar can ,are any fight they want at anytime.. Yet roy spent a decade beating up the Vinny paz's of the world.

Your threads are a joke if your serious... Lmao at you downplaying toney's won over a prome Reggie but then hyping Roy's win over a faded Reggie at the end of his career..

Your threads are ****** and all your doing is losing credibility.. I really do like you as a poster, and sorry if I'm being harsh, but you are entering the Elroy zone recently

[IronDanHamza]

Lmao at this thread and Dan's other thread... Dude has lost his mind...


Downgrading toney

Hyping roy...


Lmao

Your giving credit for roy beating REGGIE johnson... Lol,, a career 154-160 fighter, and you hypin roy beating him at 175 a decade later... But wants to discount toney's won over REGGIE because he struggled... Maybe he should have just fought him much higher in weight at the end of his career like roy did... Your fanboy ass will give roy credit for fighting a faded ass 154 champ at 175, but then downgrade toney's win when REGGIE was in his prime and at his best weight..


If you watched boxong throughout Roy's career, you would know that this dude took one big fight in his prime and nothing else..

Your ass in other threads tried to be a revisionist history and claim roy-hopkins was "clearly battle of the two top middleweights". Lmao,,,,,, hopkins was nothing more than a regional chamo club fighter at best when roy fought him for a vacant belt... Similar to how Charles Martin just fought for a vacant belt...

Since you want to downgrade toney's career, I will ask you this..

What is Roy's best wins from the toney fight in 94-2003.. guy was a superstar and the money man, with an hbo contract and was the best possible fight for any opponent, could make any fight he wanted..band didn't deliver a big fight for nearly a decade..

Yet your the same dude that craps all over calzaghe.. Lmao... Match Roy's lightheavy opponents vs joes 168-175 opponents.. There is little difference..

I can't tell if your just trolling or you actually believe the crap your saying..

Roy was great but coasted for the majority of his career, that's why he never hit stardom like floyd or Oscar. His resume is filled with Berto's, ghost Guerrero, etc but no Canelo's

Only a fanboy can hype up roy beating 40 year Reggie and mccallum, old ass virgil hill that already got outboxed by old Hearns and beaten down by daruisz


ROY TOOK ONE BIG FIGHT IN HIS CAREER VS TONEY... That's the facts.. Hopkins was a nobody that turned out to be somebody a decade later, if you watched bixing back then you would know, unless your a fanboy

Ever notice how roy wasn't that spectacular when fighting legit competition..


Name the prime fighter that roy blew out and stopped..

Sure he was great vs Vinny paz, del Valle, old hill, Otis, etc

Floyd even says you a cherrypicker..



Literally how can you go from nov of 94 to May of 03 and not fight anyone of note or PPv worthy...... But you want to claim roy had great competition.. Lmao, trying to hype vaca and Castro,,, basically the baldomirs of the 90s

For real, I can't tell if your trolling or for real... But if your for real and toney is overrated and roy fought murderer's row, then your a fanboy idiot..


Name the star in boxing that went a decade without a big fights even though they had hbo money behind any fight... Guys like floyd, roy, wlad, chavez jr, canelo, Oscar can ,are any fight they want at anytime.. Yet roy spent a decade beating up the Vinny paz's of the world.

Your threads are a joke if your serious... Lmao at you downplaying toney's won over a prome Reggie but then hyping Roy's win over a faded Reggie at the end of his career..

Your threads are ****** and all your doing is losing credibility.. I really do like you as a poster, and sorry if I'm being harsh, but you are entering the Elroy zone recently

Ok I had to skip over a lot of ridiculous points but I'll address the ones worth addressing;

Firstly, I am not downgrading or hyping anybody. In my first thread I'm analysing Toney's career (supposed to be mainly the 90's) and in this thread I am analysing Roy's alleged "weak opponents"' and these so-called weak opponents have been specifically listed in the OP. This is NOT a "analysing Roy Jones career thread" I mean are you ****** or what? Can you not read the thread title mate and the OP? It's like you people just discovered reading.

Secondly, at no point do I "hype" Roy's win over Reggie Johnson nor do I imply that the version of Johnson that Roy fought was better than the one Toney fought. I am merely comparing their performances. Now whilst Reggie wasn't prime he was still a top fighter and still very good at that point he showed that both before and after he fought Roy. As for Toney, I had Reggie beating him. Again, a COMPARISON. You know, the thesis of the thread?

And I also never discredited that win for Toney. I had him losing but it was close enough to go either way.

Thirdly, in regards to Hopkins-Jones, I said that the broadcast team said that they were two of the world's top MW's. Both were green and unproven at the time it was two young prospects fighting for a belt.

You keep repeating the same crap about Jones having no big fights but that's the point of my thread, to look at his opponents and compare his performance against them to the other top fighters of the era. Toney gets credit for beating Sosa and losing twice to Griffin, Eubank gets credit for IMO losing to Malinga, Dariusz gets credit for beating Hill etc etc etc but Roy destroys them and doesn't? That is the point of my thread if you missed the huge clue in the thread title.

"Trying to hype Vaca" no mate, I have not mentioned Vaca at any point. So what are you talking about? I've not hyped Castro either.

You've literally said about 4 times in the same post "lmao at you hyping Reggie for Roy and not for Toney" how primitive do you have to be to not understand what's being done in this thread? Seriously?

At no point do I say, imply or consider Roy Jones opposition "Murderer's row". Once again struggling with the basis of the thread. Take a breath, read it back again slower, try agin.

Also, you said Roy didn't dominate his opponents when he stepped up I'm pretty sure he dominated every fighter he fought in the 90's other than Griffin 1.

If I missed any points it's because I deemed them too laughable to respond to.

I'm entering then "Elroy zone" Yeah....riiiight. Whatever you say man. Both my thread thesis have logic behind them and I've broken down with valid points. You just don't like what you hear and in typical Toney fan fashion put your fingers in your ears and refuse to acknowledge any opposing argument.

[billeau2]

Lmao at this thread and Dan's other thread... Dude has lost his mind...


Downgrading toney

Hyping roy...


Lmao

Your giving credit for roy beating REGGIE johnson... Lol,, a career 154-160 fighter, and you hypin roy beating him at 175 a decade later... But wants to discount toney's won over REGGIE because he struggled... Maybe he should have just fought him much higher in weight at the end of his career like roy did... Your fanboy ass will give roy credit for fighting a faded ass 154 champ at 175, but then downgrade toney's win when REGGIE was in his prime and at his best weight..


If you watched boxong throughout Roy's career, you would know that this dude took one big fight in his prime and nothing else..

Your ass in other threads tried to be a revisionist history and claim roy-hopkins was "clearly battle of the two top middleweights". Lmao,,,,,, hopkins was nothing more than a regional chamo club fighter at best when roy fought him for a vacant belt... Similar to how Charles Martin just fought for a vacant belt...

Since you want to downgrade toney's career, I will ask you this..

What is Roy's best wins from the toney fight in 94-2003.. guy was a superstar and the money man, with an hbo contract and was the best possible fight for any opponent, could make any fight he wanted..band didn't deliver a big fight for nearly a decade..

Yet your the same dude that craps all over calzaghe.. Lmao... Match Roy's lightheavy opponents vs joes 168-175 opponents.. There is little difference..

I can't tell if your just trolling or you actually believe the crap your saying..

Roy was great but coasted for the majority of his career, that's why he never hit stardom like floyd or Oscar. His resume is filled with Berto's, ghost Guerrero, etc but no Canelo's

Only a fanboy can hype up roy beating 40 year Reggie and mccallum, old ass virgil hill that already got outboxed by old Hearns and beaten down by daruisz


ROY TOOK ONE BIG FIGHT IN HIS CAREER VS TONEY... That's the facts.. Hopkins was a nobody that turned out to be somebody a decade later, if you watched bixing back then you would know, unless your a fanboy

Ever notice how roy wasn't that spectacular when fighting legit competition..


Name the prime fighter that roy blew out and stopped..

Sure he was great vs Vinny paz, del Valle, old hill, Otis, etc

Floyd even says you a cherrypicker..



Literally how can you go from nov of 94 to May of 03 and not fight anyone of note or PPv worthy...... But you want to claim roy had great competition.. Lmao, trying to hype vaca and Castro,,, basically the baldomirs of the 90s

For real, I can't tell if your trolling or for real... But if your for real and toney is overrated and roy fought murderer's row, then your a fanboy idiot..


Name the star in boxing that went a decade without a big fights even though they had hbo money behind any fight... Guys like floyd, roy, wlad, chavez jr, canelo, Oscar can ,are any fight they want at anytime.. Yet roy spent a decade beating up the Vinny paz's of the world.

Your threads are a joke if your serious... Lmao at you downplaying toney's won over a prome Reggie but then hyping Roy's win over a faded Reggie at the end of his career..

Your threads are ****** and all your doing is losing credibility.. I really do like you as a poster, and sorry if I'm being harsh, but you are entering the Elroy zone recently

Some great points minus the hyperbole. However one cannot compare the comp of Calzighe to Jones...Jones fought at least two great fighters at prime (I will leave it up to the boxing gods to determine atg status).

Hopkins was good enough to start winning shortly thereafter, not over the hill and comparable to roy where he was at career wise at that time, the victory over Toney speaks for itself.

Any great fighter Calzighe beat was past prime and not on the level of Jones opposition by any stretch...comparing Jone's comp to Calzighe is like comparing Iron Dan to Elroy imo.

I think Roy fought great comp for a very small part of his career and then coasted. I also think Toney's foray into heavyweight, where Jones also went really challenges the notion that Roy is more atg than Toney...its a sore spot in this debate for sure.

I love Lights out also...I think Toney and MCcallum are just starting to be evaluated with more objective measures and I hope it gives both these fighters props.

[IronDanHamza]

Some great points minus the hyperbole. However one cannot compare the comp of Calzighe to Jones...Jones fought at least two great fighters at prime (I will leave it up to the boxing gods to determine atg status).

Hopkins was good enough to start winning shortly thereafter, not over the hill and comparable to roy where he was at career wise at that time, the victory over Toney speaks for itself.

Any great fighter Calzighe beat was past prime and not on the level of Jones opposition by any stretch...comparing Jone's comp to Calzighe is like comparing Iron Dan to Elroy imo.

I think Roy fought great comp for a very small part of his career and then coasted. I also think Toney's foray into heavyweight, where Jones also went really challenges the notion that Roy is more atg than Toney...its a sore spot in this debate for sure.

I love Lights out also...I think Toney and MCcallum are just starting to be evaluated with more objective measures and I hope it gives both these fighters props.

Confused by this.

What are you saying that James Toney is more of an ATG than Roy Jones?

The rest I agree with though. I didn't even address those points. Entirely laughable.

[robertzimmerman]

Well if you're off to bed then I suppose it's too late to bring up Michael Nunn.

Ha!

What do you want to discuss regarding Nunn?

I was tired last night. I'm in England, so it was about 3-4 am when I was debating with you.

[robertzimmerman]

Roy also said after his KO loss to Tarver, "This is what I get for giving the fans what they want."

That quote kind of sums up what his opinion was of seeking the best fights. He's Hall of Fame bound for sure. So it doesn't really matter. When the media blows somebody up, often times, it doesn't matter that much who they are fighting as long as they are looking good. Look at Wilder's last fight. All of a sudden, he's the best thing since sliced bread after struggling with a mediocre opponent.

And, no. I don't think Roy is ad as Wilder. I definitely give him the edge.

Roy was pressured into the rematch.

At that stage, he had nothing to gain and everything to lose. He should never have rematched him. The first fight was close, but it was a clear win.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing, but he should have took some time out to think about his future.

Roy did seek out the best fights. Read the links I put up in my previous posts.

[robertzimmerman]

Jones? If ten or eleven punches per round by the winning fighter is your bowl of berries, go for it. I find his fights (most of which I endured in real time) to be drudgery to review on YouTube.

Despite being the most naturally talented athlete to ever fight in a ring, he was boring, and he still is. Now that he gets KO'd every other encounter his fights have more excitement. Wrong-way Roy.

Why do I disrespect him so much? Because he disrespected the fan, and he was conscious of that. He did not knock off who he should have knocked off when he should have. I don't have to, was the attittude. Screw y'all. Did he miss some ATG's? Maybe not, but he missed some guys who were a fair bit better than good, while merely good represents the bulk of his resume best.

Hotshot who reveled in his ability and pulled stunts like playing a full basketball game the afternoon of a fight, instead of looking up the best competetition, forcing a fight, and eliminating all doubt. Force them to fight or show themselves as mere hecklers after press.

He gets credit for what he did, not for what someone thinks he could have or would have done. This is only fair, and applies to all champions or plain boxers.

He beat a few very high quality fighters along the way to turning himself into the Meadowlark Lemon of boxing. He beat semi-green Hopkins, he beat Prime Toney. He missed more fighters approaching their quality than he hit. Do I care why? Of course not. He missed them. He did not do them. He does not get credit for Michalzewski, Collins, Benn or Calzaghe.

Being cheated in the Olympics might have turned Roy into a chicken xenophobe. He had a chance to be the greatest boxing champion ever. He can get those guys to come to his yard for some price, with a little sacrifice out of his own purse.

When you already have everything within your grasp, you are already rich, when your greatness seems unparalled, you have nothing but legacy to strive for, if you are thinking clearly. Testosterone is known to get in the way of clear thinking, however. Roy believed his own press. He was invincible. He made merely good fighters look like awful scrubs. He thought it was all settled about his ATGness. But it wasn't.

Fans started to notice who he was not fighting, not who he was. He fought a few plumbers and shoe clerks.

Doing just as they please becomes a taunt to the establishment and a not altogether inadvertant tease to the fans themselves as part of the establishent, to thumb your nose at. It was a behavioral habit of his as a boxing prima donna to withhold, as a flex of his power. Mayweather played the same game of disrespect with his fans, but that is another thread.

Thread is the right word. When you thread your way too carefully through a great career, your ATG legacy pays a fine in the halls of history. Simple as that. Jones is an all time great in spite of himself, and not really a fringe one, either, as say Toney, but at least a mid-level one. But he coulda done better and shoulda done better, as in seeking what seemed the best challenges of the time. Face it: Playing the mandatories game with three A B C's is not going to land you the most awesome opportunities to extend your ATGness legacy and show your wares thoroughly under heat, and that is as close to a fact as words can get.

One thing he did do was get knocked out a lot after his super reflexes were gone. Once exposed, his chin seemd frighteningly fragile. In boxing it is common to lose a string of fights near the end, and often by KO. Even so, the fragilty of Roy's chin is more alarming than most cases I have seen.

As far as su****ions go, mine is that his chin was fragile all along but super reflexes protected it. Though it is only a su****ion, I have to give it some credence in AT mythical matchups along with my other su****ion that the caliber of Tunney and Charles and Foster would find that chin and test it somewhere along the way. For all we know a Calzaghe would have slap-tested it to smithereens.

An ATG, but he should have striven for more when he had the chance, which would have given the fans and his legacy more to crow about, rooster man.

He was boring?

Wow! What a statement that is.

The fans grew frustrated, because he was making decent fighters look like nobodies, and they hated seeing him toy with subpar mandatories. However, I've produced evidence that he tried to make fights with the likes of Liles and Hopkins etc, and after he'd unified at LHW, he had mandatory obligations from three organisations. So what was he meant to do? When fights couldn't be made against the likes of Dariusz and Hopkins, he had to take other voluntaries before fighting guys like Kelly and Woods. You bring up guys like Calzaghe, and look what he was doing. He was more than content to stay at home and repeatedly defend a lightly regarded belt, until the last few years of his career. He had no intentions of fighting Roy.

[IronDanHamza]

He was boring?

Wow! What a statement that is.

The fans grew frustrated, because he was making decent fighters look like nobodies, and they hated seeing him toy with subpar mandatories. However, I've produced evidence that he tried to make fights with the likes of Liles and Hopkins etc, and after he'd unified at LHW, he had mandatory obligations from three organisations. So what was he meant to do? When fights couldn't be made against the likes of Dariusz and Hopkins, he had to take other voluntaries before fighting guys like Kelly and Woods. You bring up guys like Calzaghe, and look what he was doing. He was more than content to stay at home and repeat sky defend a lightly regarded belt, until the last few years of his career. He had no intentions of fighting Roy.

And Voila! Someone finally grasps what the thread is about.

It only took 6 pages.

Although I'd argue some were better than just decent.