Roy Jones Jr's alleged "weak opposition"

[Scott9945]

Roy made good fighters look like limited opponents.

He did make a lot of effort to fight better fights.

He made efforts to fight Liles, Dariusz, Evander, and Hopkins in a rematch.

Hopkins was offered $6m, but wanted $10m.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...es-hopkins.htm

I certainly agree with your first line, but not so much the second. Roy was a very difficult negotiator and demanded everything on his terms. His efforts to fight Michalczewski in particular were meager. And in fairness that was the same from the other side. But it seemed pretty obvious that Roy was very happy with his HBO contract which gave him almost total control of his opposition. Larry Merchant referred to it as "the contract from Hell", and he was speaking for HBO higher ups.

[BKM-]

Roy made good fighters look like limited opponents.

He did make a lot of effort to fight better fights.

He made efforts to fight Liles, Dariusz, Evander, and Hopkins in a rematch.

Hopkins was offered $6m, but wanted $10m.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...es-hopkins.htm

As Scott said Roy did not make the extra effort. He was a complete diva with negotiations and that to me is a form of ducking. And I repeat, even if every single one of those instances it wasn't Roy's fault that the fight didn't happen(complete and utter BS) it doesn't change what names he has on his resume and the times and circumstances, how much potential was lost considering the era he fought in and so on. Roy is overrated due to how flashy he looked against inferior opponents and not fighting most of the best of his time.

[robertzimmerman]

I certainly agree with your first line, but not so much the second. Roy was a very difficult negotiator and demanded everything on his terms. His efforts to fight Michalczewski in particular were meager. And in fairness that was the same from the other side. But it seemed pretty obvious that Roy was very happy with his HBO contract which gave him almost total control of his opposition. Larry Merchant referred to it as "the contract from Hell", and he was speaking for HBO higher ups.

Why were they meagre? I've read links where Kerry Davis of HBO, did everything in his power to try and land the network the fight. If you look at Dariusz's resume, despite his claims, he clearly had no intention of fighting Roy in the U.S. He was more than content to face his WBO opposition for good pay in Germany.

Both Larry Merchant and Jim Lampley, both backed Roy in a live Q and A session before he fought Brannon, when Roy had spoke of offering a number of fighters 7 figure sums, that included Liles.

http://********/4TPjvtASn0c

Frankie Liles' manager, Jack O'Halloran, also confirmed that Frankie blew a great fight with Roy, by going back and asking for more money.

http://ringsidereport.com/?p=2112

I've already posted a link for the Hopkins fight.

Here's the Evander one:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...WFAw4Q6AEIIjAB

I could understand the fans frustrations when big fights didn't materialise. But it's a complete myth to say that he was only content to fight weak opposition. If that was true, he'd never have fought Toney, Tarver and Ruiz etc. Also, HBO had a pre approved list, they kept giving him contract extensions with bonuses, and after Roy had unified the LHW division, they knew that he had mandatory obligations from all three of the main organisations.

[robertzimmerman]

As Scott said Roy did not make the extra effort. He was a complete diva with negotiations and that to me is a form of ducking. And I repeat, even if every single one of those instances it wasn't Roy's fault that the fight didn't happen(complete and utter BS) it doesn't change what names he has on his resume and the times and circumstances, how much potential was lost considering the era he fought in and so on. Roy is overrated due to how flashy he looked against inferior opponents and not fighting most of the best of his time.

See my previous post.

Roy isn't overrated in my opinion. He's underrated.

Yes, his resume undoubtedly suffers from missing out on a lot of guys.

But how many guys who he missed out on, would have brought bigger challenges than the best guys who he fought?

Not many.

He didn't just look flashy against inferior opponents. Inferior to him maybe, but they were still good fighters who had success in their own right.

[Scott9945]

Why were they meagre? I've read links where Kerry Davis of HBO, did everything in his power to try and land the network the fight. If you look at Dariusz's resume, despite his claims, he clearly had no intention of fighting Roy in the U.S. He was more than content to face his WBO opposition for good pay in Germany.

Both Larry Merchant and Jim Lampley, both backed Roy in a live Q and A session before he fought Brannon, when Roy had spoke of offering a number of fighters 7 figure sums, that included Liles.

http://********/4TPjvtASn0c

Frankie Liles' manager, Jack O'Halloran, also confirmed that Frankie blew a great fight with Roy, by going back and asking for more money.

http://ringsidereport.com/?p=2112

I've already posted a link for the Hopkins fight.

Here's the Evander one:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...WFAw4Q6AEIIjAB

I could understand the fans frustrations when big fights didn't materialise. But it's a complete myth to say that he was only content to fight weak opposition. If that was true, he'd never have fought Toney, Tarver and Ruiz etc. Also, HBO had a pre approved list, they kept giving him contract extensions with bonuses, and after Roy had unified the LHW division, they knew that he had mandatory obligations from all three of the main organisations.

Dariusz was the lineal champion, and Roy had no intention of fighting him in Germany, where DM drew big gates. Come on, it's a two way street.

And Merchant made that comment long after the Brannon fight, when Roy had that golden contract. He fought Toney and Ruiz to win titles on PPV events, and Tarver was a mandatory.

[robertzimmerman]

Dariusz was the lineal champion, and Roy had no intention of fighting him in Germany, where DM drew big gates. Come on, it's a two way street.

And Merchant made that comment long after the Brannon fight, when Roy had that golden contract. He fought Toney and Ruiz to win titles on PPV events, and Tarver was a mandatory.

That's right, Roy had no intention of going to Germany. Which he admitted on numerous occasions. Who could blame him? He had all three belts, and he'd been scarred from the Olympics. Dariusz had also feigned injury against Roch to get him disqualified in their first fight.

The difference between Roy and Dariusz, is that Dariusz said he'd gladly go the U.S. if he got a good offer. Yet whenever HBO tried to get old of his manager Peter Kohl, he was never available to discuss any specifics. Look at who Roy fought after negotiations had broken down and then look at who Dariusz fought. His intentions were very clear.

Merchant said it was a bad deal, because he never ended up fighting as many big fights as what was originally hoped for. But if you read the links I posted, you can see that efforts were made. O'Halloran was that pissed with Liles, he ended up leaving him. And that was a guy who'd given him somewhere to live and gotten the best out of him. So if he says Frankie had got a GREAT fight lined up, then we know it must have been the truth.

[Scott9945]

That's right, Roy had no intention of going to Germany. Which he admitted on numerous occasions. Who could blame him? He had all three belts, and he'd been scarred from the Olympics. Dariusz had also feigned injury against Roch to get him disqualified in their first fight.

The difference between Roy and Dariusz, is that Dariusz said he'd gladly go the U.S. if he got a good offer. Yet whenever HBO tried to get old of his manager Peter Kohl, he was never available to discuss any specifics. Look at who Roy fought after negotiations had broken down and then look at who Dariusz fought. His intentions were very clear.

Merchant said it was a bad deal, because he never ended up fighting as many big fights as what was originally hoped for. But if you read the links I posted, you can see that efforts were made. O'Halloran was that pissed with Liles, he ended up leaving him. And that was a guy who'd given him somewhere to live and gotten the best out of him. If he says Frankie had gotten a GREAT fight lined up, then we know it must have been the truth.

You're a good poster and I respect you, but you only seem to see the sunny side of Roy Jones. I remember things differently I guess.

[robertzimmerman]

You're a good poster and I respect you, but you only seem to see the sunny side of Roy Jones. I remember things differently I guess.

I respect you too mate.

I enjoy reading your posts.

We don't have to agree with each other.

I stick up for Roy because I think he gets unfair criticism. But I do back up my opinions with facts, logic, and links etc.

I'm off to bed mate, I'll catch you later.

[Scott9945]

I respect you too mate.

I enjoy reading your posts.

We don't have to agree with each other.

I stick up for Roy because I think he gets unfair criticism. But I do back up my opinions with facts, logic, and links etc.

I'm off to bed mate, I'll catch you later.

Well if you're off to bed then I suppose it's too late to bring up Michael Nunn.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

I tend to see people say Roy Jones opposition was weak. He didn't fight top calibur opponents. Preposterous in my view but let's take a delve into his alleged "weak opponents".

I'm purposely not going to go into the fights that don't need explaining (most notably Toney and Hopkins) just the fights that are claimed to be "weak opponents";

Jorge Castro - 2-0 against Reggie Johnson (debatable especially the second one) beat John David Jackson twice, 1-1 with Duran. Beaten easily by a young Roy Jones.

Reggie Johnson - IMO one of the most underrated fighters of the 90's - IMO beat Toney, Collins, Two close losses to Castro very unlucky on the second one, close loss to John David Jackson I also thought he won that one. Jones dominated him with ease.

Merqui Sosa - SD loss to Toney, Beat Glen Johnson, beat Prince Charles Williams, competitive loss to Micheal Nunn. Blitzed in 2 rounds by Jones.

Thailand Malinga - SD loss to Eubank that IMO Malinga won. Stopped in 6 by Jones

Montel Griffin - 2-0 against James Toney, blitzed in round 1 by Jones.

Virgil Hill - Long reigning LHW champ. Coming off a decision loss to Dariusz but still a top LHW. Blasted out in 4 rounds.by Jones.

Eric Harding - Underrated, beat Antonio Tarver and Montell Griffin. Jones winning by corner stoppage in the 10th (torn bicep) in fairness an underwhelming performance for once but still ahead on the cards and on the way to a decision win.

What's your view? Weak opposition or was Jones just that good?

I don't see how these opponents can be considered "weak" when the other top fighters of the era they faced couldn't beat them and if they did beat them it wasn't an easy time. Yet Jones destroyed almost all of them with ease.

This is not a slam on him as I think he would have won the fight anyway, but the fight against Sosa was a premature stoppage IMO. As awkward as Sosa always was, that was jumping the gun. Would have liked to see f he could get in on Jones but it got stopped before he could.