Roy Jones Jr's alleged "weak opposition"

[robertzimmerman]

The Old LefHook,

Yeah, bub, he was boring and he still is. Anyone who argues that Jones has a fine resume is a fanboy pure and simple. I have been keeping track of your posts.

I've never known anyone but you call him boring. You're entitled to your opinion though.

I think Roy has a very good resume. Not an outstanding one, obviously, but a very good one.

I think his resume is up there with almost anyone who fought in his era, and who fought in and around the same weight divisions.

Yes, what an incredible statement that the champion who threw the fewest punches in memory could be boring. Isn't that something? What is it you found so exciting about him, bub, his stomach muscles?

His ability to make decent guys look like club fighters.

Had to, had to, had to. That is your blind perspective. He had to take those mandatories. He couldn't say screw you A B C's, could he now? He kept so many belts because it made for easy mandatory opposition. Same thing Calzaghe did.

You're being silly.

What do you think would have happened had he dropped his belts? It was already tough enough for him to land big fights as a multiple belt holder.

His aim was like any other fighter's: To obtain as many belts as possible.

You make it sound so simple. Nobody should get criticised for their mandatory opposition. It's the Org's who should be criticised.

Look at the time when Roy fought Ricky Frazier? He was pretty much abused for it. Yet in his very next fight, he unified the LHW division against Reggie Johnson. So yes, he had to take that WBA mandatory against Frazier. Because if he hadn't, he couldn't have unified against Reggie afterwards.

Sugar Ali is exactly right. Jones took one big fight in his career. Old Hill, old McCallum, small, neck-broken Pazienza, some shoe clerks and dish washers, and some washed up junior middles ten years past their best and fighting as light heavies.

No, Sugar is not right, and yet again, you are being completely biased.

Fights against guys like Pazienza, were keep busy fights for good pay. Those type of fights were in between his mandatory defences, and when he was negotiating to try and fight the likes of Benn and Liles.

He fought guys like Gonzalez, whilst serious efforts were being made to try and bring Dariusz to the U.S.

Tell me who he should have fought when he couldn't get fights with the likes of Dariusz and Hopkins? It was either keep busy fights against the likes of Gonzalez, or mandatories against the likes of Woods etc.

You have not proven anything to me except you have an agenda to promte Jones. You never got over his muscles and his speed.

The only guy here with an agenda, is you.

I've not proven anything to you?

Frankie Liles's own manager, Jack O'Halloran, has stated that Frankie had a great fight lined up with Roy, yet he blew it by going back and asking for more money.

Evander Holyfield's attorney of 13 years, Jim Thomas, has stated that Roy tried to fight Evander on two occasions.

Those are independent sources who had nothing to do with Roy.

If you want to completely ignore them, that's up to you. But if you want an objective debate, it would be very ignorant on your part.

You can't turn a blind eye to the links, label me as a fanboy with an agenda, whilst at the same criticising his opposition and telling me he should have dropped his belts etc.

You can't have it both ways.

Listen, friend, over at nonstop boxing you could find some pals, I am sure of it. Why don't you try them over there? Good luck.

I go on from time to time, but the majority of my time is spent on ESB.

[Daddy T]

Jones was just that good but it's a real shame he did;t fight guys like Michalczewski, Eubank, Calzaghe, Benn and Collins. He'd have beaten them all with complete ease and his record would be a lot more impressive. If he'd have retired after the ruiz fight on top of that some people would be claiming he was p4p the greatest ever.

[The Old LefHook]

Jones was just that good but it's a real shame he did;t fight guys like Michalczewski, Eubank, Calzaghe, Benn and Collins. He'd have beaten them all with complete ease and his record would be a lot more impressive. If he'd have retired after the ruiz fight on top of that some people would be claiming he was p4p the greatest ever.

Right on all counts

[The Old LefHook]

The Old LefHook,



I've never known anyone but you call him boring. You're entitled to your opinion though.

I think Roy has a very good resume. Not an outstanding one, obviously, but a very good one.

I think his resume is up there with almost anyone who fought in his era, and who fought in and around the same weight divisions.



His ability to make decent guys look like club fighters.



You're being silly.

What do you think would have happened had he dropped his belts? It was already tough enough for him to land big fights as a multiple belt holder.

His aim was like any other fighter's: To obtain as many belts as possible.

You make it sound so simple. Nobody should get criticised for their mandatory opposition. It's the Org's who should be criticised.

Look at the time when Roy fought Ricky Frazier? He was pretty much abused for it. Yet in his very next fight, he unified the LHW division against Reggie Johnson. So yes, he had to take that WBA mandatory against Frazier. Because if he hadn't, he couldn't have unified against Reggie afterwards.



No, Sugar is not right, and yet again, you are being completely biased.

Fights against guys like Pazienza, were keep busy fights for good pay. Those type of fights were in between his mandatory defences, and when he was negotiating to try and fight the likes of Benn and Liles.

He fought guys like Gonzalez, whilst serious efforts were being made to try and bring Dariusz to the U.S.

Tell me who he should have fought when he couldn't get fights with the likes of Dariusz and Hopkins? It was either keep busy fights against the likes of Gonzalez, or mandatories against the likes of Woods etc.



The only guy here with an agenda, is you.

I've not proven anything to you?

Frankie Liles's own manager, Jack O'Halloran, has stated that Frankie had a great fight lined up with Roy, yet he blew it by going back and asking for more money.

Evander Holyfield's attorney of 13 years, Jim Thomas, has stated that Roy tried to fight Evander on two occasions.

Those are independent sources who had nothing to do with Roy.

If you want to completely ignore them, that's up to you. But if you want an objective debate, it would be very ignorant on your part.

You can't turn a blind eye to the links, label me as a fanboy with an agenda, whilst at the same criticising his opposition and telling me he should have dropped his belts etc.

You can't have it both ways.



I go on from time to time, but the majority of my time is spent on ESB.

What you have told me is that in between his weak mandatories Jones took even weaker stay busy fights with hamburger like Pazienza. He had the power and the prestige to make any fight in the world he wanted. When you hog purses, promotional rights and choice of site the way Jones did, you better believe it is going to be hard to make fights with guys who know they will probably lose, sir. Send all the lawyers you want out to parley. They can report later that you tried. But the fact is you didn't try, unless everything your way, including the money, is trying.

He should have dropped the scrub belts keeping only the best, and then sought only the highest grade fights. His career and his legacy would be far better. He would be richer too. Otherwise you tell me how a guy with that talent and ability is lucky to make the top ten on light heavyweight lists these days and does not make the low twenties on most AT lists, when he should have made himself recognized as the greatest fighter of all time with few dissenters.

[BKM-]

Jones was just that good but it's a real shame he did;t fight guys like Michalczewski, Eubank, Calzaghe, Benn and Collins. He'd have beaten them all with complete ease and his record would be a lot more impressive. If he'd have retired after the ruiz fight on top of that some people would be claiming he was p4p the greatest ever.

Yeah, this is what the Jones fans offer. "He would have". Even though he didn't.

And for the latter, I was one of those people. As a kid RJJ was the second fighter I started following and thought he was a God. Now I know a lot better both about his resume and his fighting abilities. I no longer rely on hypotheticals in his favor or blaming everyone but him for his unacceptable resume.

[Humean]

I've been guilty of claiming and thinking that Jones' opposition was quite weak too in the past but last year I went through most of Jones's fights in the 90s as well as a number of his opposition's other fights and I came away from it not only remembering what an astonishing fighter Jones really was in his prime but also that his opposition was a lot stronger than I had thought. To me the Malinga and Castro wins are very underappreciated, and I also always downgraded the Hopkins win far too much.

There are definite criticisms of Jones in regards to not fighting tougher opponents when he went to 175 although most of his opponents were in the ring magazine's top 10 (perhaps the rankings were a bit biased in favour of the US light-heavies though). I'd have liked Jones to have fought at least a couple from Benn, Eubank, Calzaghe, Ottke, Collins, Rocchigiani, and Michalczewski. There is just a disappointment with Jones that he got too complacent and didn't test himself enough. It is not all his fault though, you can blame other fighters, promoters, tv networks and the sanctioning bodies too but he does deserve a lot of blame.

[robertzimmerman]

Jones was just that good but it's a real shame he did;t fight guys like Michalczewski, Eubank, Calzaghe, Benn and Collins. He'd have beaten them all with complete ease and his record would be a lot more impressive. If he'd have retired after the ruiz fight on top of that some people would be claiming he was p4p the greatest ever.

Correct. But those were hard to make fights.

And Eubank and Calzaghe would never have fought Roy in his prime. They're even on record as saying as much.

[Humean]

Correct. But those were hard to make fights.

And Eubank and Calzaghe would never have fought Roy in his prime. They're even on record as saying as much.

Are they? I remember Eubank claiming that Jones told him that Jones didn't want to fight him back in the early 90s. If that is true then it is the reverse of what you are claiming.

[soul_survivor]

I tend to see people say Roy Jones opposition was weak. He didn't fight top calibur opponents. Preposterous in my view but let's take a delve into his alleged "weak opponents".

I'm purposely not going to go into the fights that don't need explaining (most notably Toney and Hopkins) just the fights that are claimed to be "weak opponents";

Jorge Castro - 2-0 against Reggie Johnson (debatable especially the second one) beat John David Jackson twice, 1-1 with Duran. Beaten easily by a young Roy Jones.

Reggie Johnson - IMO one of the most underrated fighters of the 90's - IMO beat Toney, Collins, Two close losses to Castro very unlucky on the second one, close loss to John David Jackson I also thought he won that one. Jones dominated him with ease.

Merqui Sosa - SD loss to Toney, Beat Glen Johnson, beat Prince Charles Williams, competitive loss to Micheal Nunn. Blitzed in 2 rounds by Jones.

Thailand Malinga - SD loss to Eubank that IMO Malinga won. Stopped in 6 by Jones

Montel Griffin - 2-0 against James Toney, blitzed in round 1 by Jones.

Virgil Hill - Long reigning LHW champ. Coming off a decision loss to Dariusz but still a top LHW. Blasted out in 4 rounds.by Jones.

Eric Harding - Underrated, beat Antonio Tarver and Montell Griffin. Jones winning by corner stoppage in the 10th (torn bicep) in fairness an underwhelming performance for once but still ahead on the cards and on the way to a decision win.

What's your view? Weak opposition or was Jones just that good?

I don't see how these opponents can be considered "weak" when the other top fighters of the era they faced couldn't beat them and if they did beat them it wasn't an easy time. Yet Jones destroyed almost all of them with ease.

Jones fought decent to good opponents, heck I was impressed with his win over Tarver, considering Jones went straight back from heavyweight to light heavy and into a title fight against an accomplished fighter but where's the stand out names? Where's guys like Eubank and Benn? Politics aside, those fights should have happened and could have happened if he wasn't getting paid millions to fight "ok" guys.

I remember commenting on your thread about toney, which makes this thread weird, or it's just because you can't separate your fandom for Jones from your objective boxing mind. Toney doesn't exactly have great names on his resume but he beat a similar level of opponents as Jones AND much bigger guys at cruiser and heavy. Why hold it against Toney but not Jones?

[IronDanHamza]

Jones fought decent to good opponents, heck I was impressed with his win over Tarver, considering Jones went straight back from heavyweight to light heavy and into a title fight against an accomplished fighter but where's the stand out names? Where's guys like Eubank and Benn? Politics aside, those fights should have happened and could have happened if he wasn't getting paid millions to fight "ok" guys.

I remember commenting on your thread about toney, which makes this thread weird, or it's just because you can't separate your fandom for Jones from your objective boxing mind. Toney doesn't exactly have great names on his resume but he beat a similar level of opponents as Jones AND much bigger guys at cruiser and heavy. Why hold it against Toney but not Jones?

I'm not even that big a fan of Roy Jones so no it's not my "fandom".

The difference between Toney and Roy Jones is Roy Jones dominated his opponents.

But this thread isn't about Roy Jones vs Toney I don't really think that needs to be debated really.

All this thread is about is the specific fighters listed and whether they are as "weak" as people tend to claim.

I don't recall ever hearing Toney fought weak opposition.