James Toney; Most overrated fighter of the 90's?

[ShoulderRoll]

Obviously referring to first fight, not second.

Montel Griffin caused him the most problems that is glaringly obvious but he'd never say that because fighters don't do that.

Toney was probably his easiest fight. Literally staggeringly different levels.

Does this sound to you like he's talking about the first fight?



SMARTEST
BERNARD HOPKINS: He had a real good ring IQ. He was able to study the first fight and get it right for the second fight and use the IQ to keep it where it was harder to attack the second time.

[Tatabanya]

Never said over their best opponents.

I ssid dominant performances over top tier opponents.

Understood.

You know, what I think is that Toney is not the kind of fighter you ever see in a truly "dominant" performance. His style was perfect for doing the job, if you get my point, but I never watched a Toney fight thinking "he'll kick the opponent's ass tonight" before. For better or worse, he always had to fight - at least for a while - to get the result.

[IronDanHamza]

Does this sound to you like he's talking about the first fight?



SMARTEST
BERNARD HOPKINS: He had a real good ring IQ. He was able to study the first fight and get it right for the second fight and use the IQ to keep it where it was harder to attack the second time.

Right but he'z saying it because he has a win over him when they were both young.

Everyone knows Griffin was his hardest fight. Everyone knows that.

That's not what fighters do.

It's irrelevant what Roy says about Toney. We can all go and watch the actual fight and see that he was one of his easiest fights.

[ShoulderRoll]

Right but he'z saying it because he has a win over him when they were both young.

Everyone knows Griffin was his hardest fight. Everyone knows that.

That's not what fighters do.

It's irrelevant what Roy says about Toney. We can all go and watch the actual fight and see that he was one of his easiest fights.

He does call the second Griffin fight the best win of his career, so it's not like he left him out of the discussion.

But:


Looking back, Jones is exceptionally proud of two standout moments in his illustrious career.

“The night I beat the man (James Toney) to be the man,” he said. “Then when I defied history and was the first man ever to turn pro at junior middleweight and win the heavyweight title.”

[IronDanHamza]

He does call the second Griffin fight the best win of his career, so it's not like he left him out of the discussion.

But:


Looking back, Jones is exceptionally proud of two standout moments in his illustrious career.

“The night I beat the man (James Toney) to be the man,” he said. “Then when I defied history and was the first man ever to turn pro at junior middleweight and win the heavyweight title.”

But no mention of the first one which was hands down the toughest fight of his career. That's a shocker.

It's irrelevant like I said, we can all go and see the fight.

[ShoulderRoll]

But no mention of the first one which was hands down the toughest fight of his career. That's a shocker.

It's irrelevant like I said, we can all go and see the fight.

Calzaghe beat him but Roy still finds positive things to say about him. I don't see where you are coming from with this "he only praises his easy wins" talk.


“Joe was the busiest guy I fought,” Jones recalled. “I never met anyone more busy than Joe. He just stayed busy. He didn’t have the fastest hands, he didn’t have the strongest punches, he was just busy as hell. You don’t find a fighter who stays as busy as Joe Calzaghe – ever.”

[IronDanHamza]

Calzaghe beat him but Roy still finds positive things to say about him. I don't see where you are coming from with this "he only praises his easy wins" talk.


“Joe was the busiest guy I fought,” Jones recalled. “I never met anyone more busy than Joe. He just stayed busy. He didn’t have the fastest hands, he didn’t have the strongest punches, he was just busy as hell. You don’t find a fighter who stays as busy as Joe Calzaghe – ever.”

What he says about anyone is irrelevant and agenda driven most of the time.

We can see the fight with our two eyes and see clearly that Toney was one of Roy's easiest opponents.

[QueensburyRules]

What he says about anyone is irrelevant and agenda driven most of the time.

We can see the fight with our two eyes and see clearly that Toney was one of Roy's easiest opponents.

- -Roy turned Toney into a French farce, one of the funniest fights in history.

He did the same to Popkins in both fights.

[ShoulderRoll]

For now let's put aside what Roy Jones says, since he might be the type of person that has an agenda.

What do other fighters have to say about James Toney?


Montell Griffin: Credits Toney with having the best defense, best chin, best skills, and being the smartest of anyone he faced.

Mike McCallum: Credits Toney with being the best overall fighter he ever faced.

Michael Nunn: Credits Toney with being the smartest fighter he ever faced.

Iran Barkley: Credits Toney with having the best defense of anyone he ever faced. Says Duran was the smartest but does mention Toney in that section as well for having a good ring IQ.

[IronDanHamza]

For now let's put aside what Roy Jones says, since he might be the type of person that has an agenda.

What do other fighters have to say about James Toney?


Montell Griffin: Credits Toney with having the best defense, best chin, best skills, and being the smartest of anyone he faced.

Mike McCallum: Credits Toney with being the best overall fighter he ever faced.

Michael Nunn: Credits Toney with being the smartest fighter he ever faced.

Iran Barkley: Credits Toney with having the best defense of anyone he ever faced. Says Duran was the smartest but does mention Toney in that section as well for having a good ring IQ.

Why would any of this matter?

Let's just watch the fights. He didn't look impressive or dominate any of the above except Barkley who was past his prime and far from elite anyway.