James Toney; Most overrated fighter of the 90's?

[IronDanHamza]

Yes, I know what you were trying to point out with your example, but you failed miserably.

Now you're backtracking. You said he had a string of losses to subpar opposition. Yet that's not true. And it makes no difference that you worded it like: 'a string of losses/poor performances to subpar opposition'

It's a gross exaggeration on your part. But that's to be expected.

At no point did I say "he has a string of loss's against poor opposition"

Quote me saying that. It doesn't exist.

I said "he has a string of loss's/(or and)poor performances against sub par opponents. Which is true and have broken down why.

You can't comprehend the example, that's fine.

[robertzimmerman]

At no point did I say "he has a string of loss's against poor opposition"

Quote me saying that. It doesn't exist.

I said "he has a string of loss's/(or and)poor performances against sub par opponents. Which is true and have broken down why.

You can't comprehend the example, that's fine.

It doesn't matter how you word it, it still implies that he had a string of losses. Two losses doesn't constitute as a string of losses.

But it's cool.

We've had a great debate, and we'll have to agree to disagree, otherwise we'll be arguing until next year.

I'll see you on your great Roy thread.

[Syf]

Seems to me undermining the validity of James Tony, consequently, undermines one of Roy's best wins.

[soul_survivor]

I think Roy Jones was clearly the fighter of the 90's next to Whitaker and an ATG.

Toney whilst overrated is still a sure fire HOF'er. Jones win over him was very impressive.

Jones has a list of dominant and impressive performances against top level guys.

I don't think McCallum was nearly his best win. Maybe name wise yeah but not in terms of quality. Obviously the versions of McCallum that Toney fought the first two times were much better than the one Roy dominated. But I don't feel that Toney beat McCallum either time.

Would you agree, that outside of Mc, Jones best wins in the 90s are Hopkins and Toney? It's not exactly a show stopping career to have two "name" wins (not gonna go into the specifics of the stages at which these fights happened) over the span of a decade.

I feel guys like Holyfield did more than JOnes or Toney, not to mention Oscar who has an argument as well.

[IronDanHamza]

It doesn't matter how you word it, it still implies that he had a string of losses. Two losses doesn't constitute as a string of losses.

But it's cool.

We've had a great debate, and we'll have to agree to disagree, otherwise we'll be arguing until next year.

I'll see you on your great Roy thread.

That's not how I meant it.

Fair enough fella. No hard feelings.

[IronDanHamza]

Seems to me undermining the validity of James Tony, consequently, undermines one of Roy's best wins.

I'm not saying Toney's terrible. Sure fire first ballot HOF'er.

[IronDanHamza]

Would you agree, that outside of Mc, Jones best wins in the 90s are Hopkins and Toney? It's not exactly a show stopping career to have two "name" wins (not gonna go into the specifics of the stages at which these fights happened) over the span of a decade.

I feel guys like Holyfield did more than JOnes or Toney, not to mention Oscar who has an argument as well.

I would defintely agree on that.

Johnson also impressive win, Griffin, Hill.

Harding a good underrated win IMO. Not a great performance but a good win.

Some lower level wins like Sosa, Malinga, Tate, Castro etc that yeah I'll agree are far from elite but the way he dealt with them were impressive IMO.

Fair comment on Holyfield. Don't agree with you on Oscar but agree to disagree.

[Suckmedry]

Styles making fights played a factor IMO and in the case of Griffin yeah it definitely played a part. Toney always struggled when the guy across from him had his own skills. Griffin showed just that.

Thadzi I believe he overlooked but Thadzi had a perfect gamelan on the night.

Being out of shape may have been an issue yeah but who knows they had thT excuse ready every single time.

See this is the kind of crap that makes no one here take what you say seriously...

They are professional fighters fighting at world level...they all have well developed considerable amounts of skill. Some obviously more so than others but to say that "whenever the other guy had skills Toney struggled" is just ******ed and shows that your knowledge of the sport is totally abysmal.

For some reason in boxing we have to suffer idiots who have never even sparred before, and deal with them saying all these ******ed things. Its like forcing NBA fans to listen to some jackass who's never even dribbled a ball in his life.

Its the reason we all cringe when some idiot like max kellerman starts trying to break down a fight and comment on whats happening.

[sonnyboyx2]

Out of all of the guys ranked in the top 5 he fought there's Griffin who he went 0-2 with (IMO 1-1) there's Sosa he won by SD and failed to dominate, there's Littles who he beat impressively and there's Holyfield who he fought 8 years later.

Top 10 opponents are Johnson which I thought he lost, McCallum who I thought went 1-0-1 with him and Nunn who he came from behind to KO.

All outside of 2 he either struggled with or lost to.

Names look nice on paper but not so nice when you delve into the actual fights.

I'd agree with on Kosta Tszyu but I don't see him rated as highly as Toney tends to be.

Toney is a sure fire HOF'er though unlike Tszyu who I don't believe should have been inducted.

Adolpho Washington was highly rated when Toney knocked him out. Dan i can see your reasoning in this thread, but it's based on how YOU scored the fights, not how the judges scored those fights. Toney vs McCallum (1 & 2) were exceptional "Boxing Fights".. the skills shown by both fighters over 24rds were excellent, with the fight going too and fro. Those 24rds show it is not possible to make claim James Toney is overrated. Toney's complete anihilation of Iran Barkley ia again, proof he is not overrated. Toney's come-from-behind KO of Prime Michael Nunn. The Jirov and Charles Williams fights. His comebacks against Reggie Johnson & Tim Littles show he cannot be overrated and this is before we get up to his heavyweight days. This thread should be looked at in ...."The Quality of Opponents Toney has fought during his championship years"....He has fought some excellent opponents, with only Roy Jones Jr. being dominant over him. The same Roy Jones Jr. was also dominant over Bernard Hopkins. But none of Toney's opponents have "Taken him to school"... Holyfield, Rahman, Ruiz, Peter, Oquendo all Champions or contenders in the heavyweight division, failed to put a dent in Toney.... James Toney overrated?..IMO an incredible fighter.

[soul_survivor]

I would defintely agree on that.

Johnson also impressive win, Griffin, Hill.

Harding a good underrated win IMO. Not a great performance but a good win.

Some lower level wins like Sosa, Malinga, Tate, Castro etc that yeah I'll agree are far from elite but the way he dealt with them were impressive IMO.

Fair comment on Holyfield. Don't agree with you on Oscar but agree to disagree.

Fair enough, I just feel Jones has a pretty weak resume but blinded people with his athleticisim to such a degree that people felt he was one of the greatest ever. No doubt he's a great fighter and imo ranked higher than Toney but I feel both of them face similar problems. Two wasted talents considering the fights that COULD have happened.