Naseem Hamed - ATG or Fraud

[Scott9945]

So what good trainers are left in the sport now. Freddy Roach? Roger Mayweather?

Roger is now unfit to train. Roach's condition continues to deteriorate and he doesn't have too much time left to train.

[Anthony342]

So there's nobody left?

[Ben Bolt]

"Naseem Hamed - ATG or Fraud"

No one, brave enough to test his/hers limits and risk his/hers health by stepping into a professional boxing ring, is a fraud. No one.

[James09]

Biggest test was Barrera. Hall of Famer but not ATG.

[Scott9945]

So there's nobody left?

There are still plenty of good trainers. Maybe not great, but good enough.

[ShoulderRoll]

When I watched that fight I was caught up in underdog fever and don't remember HOW barrera beat him so convincingly, so I would assume your right if you recall that Barrera beat him in such a way.

Everybody here in the States seemed to be caught up in underdog fever. We all wanted to see someone finally shut Hamed's mouth.

He was a bit like Floyd in the sense that a lot of people were tuning in to his fights in hopes he would lose. Gotta give the Prince credit for that much, he sure brought some entertainment and excitement to the sport.

[billeau2]

So what good trainers are left in the sport now. Freddy Roach? Roger Mayweather?

That is a matter of philosophy in some respects. A lot of guys are not known...they can be someone young like Barry Robinson, who you can google. This guy, whether one agrees or not with his philosophy does an incredible amount of study on the subject and is a great film reviewer...he is on Utube. Then you have the Ray Corsos of the world...guys who came up with other trainers, usually from traditional boxing gyms, before MMA.

The name guys are not necessarily the best. before Bruce Lee came to town every martial arts instructor was part of a system. If my style was Shotokan karate, for example, I was probably fighting against Goju Ryu karate guys. Then a funny thing happened, something I call the basement revolution! So in new york city, LA and other big cities there was not a lot of space. in Hong Kong you can watch film of Yip Man (who taught Lee Wing Chun) doing forms in his kitchen as kids are running under his feet, and he tries to avoid the stove! Well...nobody had space in New York either, but there was always a super in the building and a basement. Supers are usually relatively sociopathic individuals who like violence...so if one was nice, said they were a martial artist (which used to be a big deal back in the day!) inevitably the super would let them use the basement to train in! In LA ditto, except instead of a basement it was your garage.

These basements became labratories where martial arts were pulled apart, where young men gained bruised lips and hips...and a scolding from mom/ or wifey as they then put together these martial arts again and again and again. Most film of Bruce lee, including with such legends as Dan Insanto, are in a garage of some sort....not a dojo! The upshot of this was, people became exploratory and sceptical. they wanted to be more well rounded and to understand WHY things did. or did not, work. It was a great time to be a martial artist really and I would imagine a boxer as well, though I can't vouch for that.

Boxing went through a similar process really. Gyms were packed, playgrounds were often used for boxers to set up punching appuratus and people were always doing roadwork. Ali was the champ and everyone wanted to be Ali except the one or two kids who would be frazier in the schoolyard slap fights.

Well today if a teacher does not have a gym, a school and doesnt charge a lot of money they are not taken seriously. The Koreans commercialized the arts at first, but the Gracies really made it about the money. Not that you don't get some great training out of this new way...arts like Sayok Kali and Gracie jiu jitsu are great systems with a real knack for consistancy and weeding out the frauds. But alas something is lost. Today there is a technique that is taught to address the combat scenerio and depending on your belt and training, you will learn those things as part of the system...when i was coming up it was more like, "Listen I want you to grab me as hard as you can, dont let me twist the arm!" and you would see what worked and didn't work. This was the old way...trial and error. There is even a story about two great fighters from two systems who fought each other hammer and tongs with bare hands and with sticks...one fuy had better Ju Jutsu the other guy better bo Jutsu (stick) and out of this came a new system.

My point is that now, we see guys like Roach at their gyms and we know about a trainer through their gyms...and this is how the new guys are trining people, not through reputation.

[BennyST]

What are your thoughts on Naz..?

Is it only one or the other? An ATG or a dodgy fraud? Can he not be a HOF fighter, but just short of an ATG?

[billeau2]

Everybody here in the States seemed to be caught up in underdog fever. We all wanted to see someone finally shut Hamed's mouth.

He was a bit like Floyd in the sense that a lot of people were tuning in to his fights in hopes he would lose. Gotta give the Prince credit for that much, he sure brought some entertainment and excitement to the sport.

yes indeed! and just like Bronner he has an impish face...YOU JUST WANTED TO SEE HIM GET HIT!!

[BKM-]

If he really was that unprepared he would have gone for a rematch to prove it. But as we know he quit after being exposed and humiliated. Barrera managed to kick his and allah's asses in one go, too bad he only got rid of one of them though.