The AlexKid 'questions about punchers, chins, hiprotation etc.' superduper thread.

[Anthony342]

George Foreman.

[juggernaut666]

Anybody mentioned Liston?

Listons caliber leaves something to be desired....realistically not even Liston would make a top 10 if we include modern guys. Look at my list on the other thread see what you think.

[juggernaut666]

One thing to keep in mind as well, is that there is always a trade off when one hits with as much power as possible. Transferring that much power means setting up for the punch and, the natural way of punching hard is also what we are protected from physiologically.

We evolved to hit down on things. This is why the body is protected from things coming from the top and hitting down upon it. Consider, that if I take a shot at you hitting down this is the easiest way to bring all my weight to bare upon you...Watch when chimps and other big primates hit, they do so hitting down because this is the natural way to generate power. However when these hits come, the first thing my fist may encounter is your forehead which is one of, if not the hardest part of your body and protects your eyes, nose and throat from the force of the blow...once my fist passes your head and throat your plexis is also not available at that angle, and neither is your groin.

In nature primates have a lot of discretion under these circumstances. I an keep hitting you very hard, and your body has quite a bit of resistance to the blows...meaning I can variate the amount of damage I do.

Trained fighters are trained to punch straight, or even up at certain angles where a blow may not be as hard, but can access the vital areas of the body. Punching straight or upwards my punch will naturally catch the groin, plexus, throat, and eyes among other areas. But now I am working against gravity and to bring my weight to bare I have to either use centrifigal force, excessive speed, or find a way to bring my weight to bare. In many older arts this was done with timing the foot so it hit with the weight upon it, just as the punch landed on target... This was something advocated by Dempsey as well...Or, a man would try to catch the opponent as the punching arm was maximally extended...Sonny's favorite expression can be used here because this is pretty much Poleaxing a man. With maximum extension comes maximum structural support as the body very briefly locks into place, maximum strength as the arm has been launched the farthest distance from the body and maximum centrifugal force as the hips, spine twist and the legs sink into position.

But alas, hitting hard with different glove sizes also changes things and most hard blows thrown before large mufflers (gloves) were used would not transfer with the larger gloves. So today to hit hard fighters have to rotate the jab, lose the lead punch, and loop the cross, etc.

So in truth the notion that there are progressively harder hitters is nonsense. The guys who are succesful have adapted their hitting technique to circumstances. Joe Louis is a perfect example...his technique, his strategy and his footwork was designed to make it so that over a 15 round fight he would get so many opportunities to attack his man and do it with a form suited to circumstances of the day. he was so good that this held for him against Billy Conn..where he got fewer chances but given the chance he was succesful.

Tyson, is another example. his hitting technique was explosive and that allowed him to generate a lot of torque and blunt force with big gloves. But lets remember when Tyson hit Mitch Green without the gloves! his technique did not kill Green (many people think a boxer without gloves is a deadly puncher) and in fact, he broke his hand! Tyson would NOT be able to punch that way fighting with smaller golves against Jack JOhnson for example!

See my point Alex?

"Trained fighters are trained to punch straight, or even up at certain angles where a blow may not be as hard, but can access the vital areas of the body. Punching straight or upwards my punch will naturally catch the groin, plexus, throat, and eyes among other areas."

This is true however the art of the HOOK punch is often overlooked in martial arts as they use that punch for commom punches thrown at them.however a skilled hook puncher"Myself" does not throw the same way as a untrained bar drunk....its also known the eye can time a straight punch distance easier but a hook punch when thrown cannot measure the distance of it when thrown.....resulting in more k.os by hook punches.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

George foreman......

[billeau2]

"Trained fighters are trained to punch straight, or even up at certain angles where a blow may not be as hard, but can access the vital areas of the body. Punching straight or upwards my punch will naturally catch the groin, plexus, throat, and eyes among other areas."

This is true however the art of the HOOK punch is often overlooked in martial arts as they use that punch for commom punches thrown at them.however a skilled hook puncher"Myself" does not throw the same way as a untrained bar drunk....its also known the eye can time a straight punch distance easier but a hook punch when thrown cannot measure the distance of it when thrown.....resulting in more k.os by hook punches.

a hook does present to the opponent as a circular attack and this does give a false sense of distance to the opponent. yet a hook is not a wide swing...rather it is a punch thrown straignt from the elbow in any number of ways. So even on a hook there exists a straight path from the elbow...again some guys throw it palm up, palm down, there are guys who throw it an an angle (bareknuckle guys do this)...and there are shovel hooks done inside often with the elbows against the sides.

This is essentially the difference: the untrained guy swings the arm, where as a hooker can throw it from any point by simply turning the elbow which is untelegraphed. Also Mexican fighters even change speeds on the hook, another effective measure.

[fanofslug]

Big George Foreman, his hands were so heavy he could KO with a jab

[Sun_Tzu]

Title doesnt specify weightclass. Im going with Julian Jackson. If he would have been a heavyweight they would have put him in the pen.

[Billy T]

Rocky Marciano

[McGoorty]

Marciano hit the hardest.

[McGoorty]

Mike Tyson, his punches knocked out opponents clean with no chance of recovery

He knocked me out once....... I was 200 metres away but the force of the wind he made with one punch knocked down an oak tree and one of its branches hit me in the head.