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............Do the defeats and knock out losses, depreciate Roy Jones ATG Legacy?.. Roy Jones went undefeated in 15yrs winning world championships from middleweight up to heavyweight.. Considered one of the greatest fighters in history, before suffering his first loss at 35yrs of age.
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I think they very well may, especially the earlier ones against Tarver and Johnson.Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
A long twilight can work to a fighter's benefit legacy-wise, even if he takes beatings, by reinforcing that he did indeed have a great chin. This would be the case with Robinson. Once he slowed down and had to stand in there with brutes like Fullmer, and even after he was just another bum, it was obvious he must have had a great chin all along.
If Roy's long twilight does anything to affect his legacy, it is likely to be negative. It sets up a natural doubt about the quality of his chin all along, because he keeps getting knocked out, and knocked out easily in his twilight.
His actual accomplishments cannot be taken away. If we suppose for analytical purposes that he indeed had a semi-glass jaw all along, any all time great would be amazed at his speed, power and evasivness, and lucky to escape.
But my feeling is that all time greats are in the business of finding their opponents, and they would find Roy. Guys like Charles, Tunney and Foster are apt to find anyone, including fleet Roy. What happens when they do find him? That is the question all those knockout losses have posed against his legacy. Roy is capable of KO'ing all three of them, but he may have had a serious Achilles heel. Myself, I believe he never had a platinum chin. He was so great no one could find out, but then someone did, and again and again...Roy nudged my mind toward this conclusion. -
No...
You still can't disregard his career achievements..
Had he had longevity like Hopkins, then Roy would be in the conversation of the GOATComment
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The run he had can never be taken away from him. But some of his weaknesses have been exposed now that he doesn't have otherworldly speed and reflexes.Comment
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Should it? No. Not IMO.
Will it? I think so.
In my eyes, Roy Jones is still one of the best fighters I've ever seen.Comment
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I have the exact same thoughts. They shouldn't affect his legacy. But the embarrassing losses are piling up and making his prime seem more and more distant.Originally posted by IronDanHamza View Post
I've never in my lifetime seen a fighter as great as Roy Jones Jr was continue to fight under such foolish circumstances.Comment
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It's been almost 12 years since his first knockout loss that started the streak of brutal losses, and 13 years since his prime ended(according to most) which is how long he's been overextending his stay in the game.
That's a very long time to damage your legacy. His amount of years fighting past-prime have actually been longer than the amount of years he was in his prime. It's difficult to find another fighter who has done a more thorough job damaging his legacy and I can't think of any.Comment
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Agreed, they shouldn't but they will. Usually bad losses past prime do diminish a legacy, until they retire and about 5-10 years go by and then most people go back to remembering great fighters at their best. He was one of the best on the pound for pound list for a while and a top light heavy in his prime and era, so those parts of his legacy will become more prominent over time.
Just like any other fighter or sport. I mean, most football fans remember coaches like Parcells or Lombardi winning championships with their Giants and Packers teams, not where they ended up later, at least not now or QBs like Favre winning a title with Green Bay and Montana winning with the 49ers, not Favre later playing for the Jets or Montana later with the Chiefs.
Ali fans remember him more from the '60s to mid '70s, not the fights after that, Holyfield and Tyson from the '80s to mid '90s as opposed to later than that and we remember Chavez Sr. for his wins over opponents like Rosario, Roger Mayweather and Meldrick Taylor, not later losses against De La Hoya, Kosta Tszyu or Grover Wiley.
So short term, yes it will hurt his legacy. Long term, no.Comment
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I thought I saw this thread somewhere else. I agree that it should not affect his legacy. Reasoning backwards if one considered Roy's greatness a consideration of his entire career then we can conclude that:
1) Calzagne is much better
2) Roy loses to pressure fighters that are very good but not great...Glencoff Johnson and that there are superior boxers and punchers who can at least match him like Tarver.
Obviously these are false conclusions, they are on the order of considering Mike Tyson circa Lennox Lewis fight was in his prime.
Some guys have longevity some don't. Some guys show greatness at the highest levels, some excellent fighters don't.Comment
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Roy's way of fighting was based on supernatural reflexes. Once that outer garment was removed it was apparent Jones had few traditional skills packed away in his medicine bag for a rainy day. He simply did not have the traditional skills that MW had. He was a poor fighter without his natural gifts. He does not have the skills to survive even against weathered scrubs like Maccenralli.
Some of his decline was due to his own ******ity. He ruined his legs playing baskeball for hours everyday, pounding away on cement courts. What he should have been doing was learning some traditional skills.
In mythical matchups he will be going in at his best, almost untouchable. I just figure guys like Charles and Foster & Tunney will be able to touch him anyway.
Another pertinent fact is his fights were some of the most boring that were ever highly promoted. Watching reruns of his fights on YouTube is almost unbearable. Back in the day watching him fight on TV, we at least had the advantage of thinking something exciting might happen at any moment. It never did until he was Kayoed by Tarver. That was the most exciting thing that ever happened in a RJJ fight. Since then, he has provided us with many more exciting moments.
He toyed with the public. That is why I never liked him. Take what I give you or go to hell, was his message. He could have fought more exciting opponents, but refused. He thought he was so great he did not have to fight the very best fighters the public wanted to see him against. Take what I give you or go to hell. Now he is the one in hell.
I love to see him struggle with his own identity now. He was no hero of mine. I wanted him punished for what he did to the fans, and now he is well punished. If he wants to continue with his own punishment, that is up ti him, not me.
His legacy will not be too affected, but it will be affected. Many people now suspect he never did have a chin, and anyone with any sense realizes he comes up very short on the traditional skills list.
He just cannot get over himself. Everyone else is over him though.Last edited by The Old LefHook; 12-23-2015, 10:52 AM.Comment
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