Ali vs Wilt

[Elroy1]

Klitschko should of been punching in those clinches, but that it not something he has needed to do in the past, as an alternative to plan A.

I imagine he was told in his corner - just he didn't have it in his skill set (muscle memory).

This I concur, it is in fact true Tyson's words- Klitschko never fought an opponent like me. He was bigger than even the comparable sized opponents he previously fought and moved with far more swiftness and grace than any of those as well, which is why I wouldn't try to rip off Fury's victory and do have Fury as the slight front runner in a rematch.

He hasn't needed to expand his repertoire in a long time and so wasn't equipped to, he needs to train like this for Fury it's clear.

When placed in difficult (losing) circumstances people do not attempt something new - hence why he kept to well established and familiar plan A despite it being wrong approach.

I can agree with this one mid-fight but I can also envision an inspiration from this loss now for Wlad also.

I agree, Klitschko style (plan A) is excellent, were it not, he would not of strung together so many title defenses - but against an opponent of a similar size where he was required to change from that style - he was unable to.

It bring us back to the original thread topic.

If Chamberlain spent an unspecific amount of months exclusively training for a single opponent, Muhammad Ali, could he defeat him? Theoretical yes.

This same logic also applies to Klitschko now in a rematch. Klitschko may now go back to the drawing board like he has done in the past and reinvent.

This is why I think that a rematch would be very exciting and difficult to predict.

Funny thing is I think the old aggressive Klitschko pre-Steward would have done better with Fury who probably doesn't hit hard enough to stop a bullrushing Wlad or the chin to take the power once it's forced through.

Say he does and continues to box, his next opponent is George Foreman, from the base of his training, acquired skillset and previous strategy - could he do it?

I get your drift here and I agree.

Except I didn't think much of your choice of analogy using Geroge Foreman. ANY skillset is superior over young George's imo. It's just a question of whether you have enough physical attributes to make your skills work against him.

I think Klitschko has done and could alter his style to conquer Fury IN THEORY. Whether he can in fact I dunno.

The good thing is here that we will get to see if he can or not in several months time!!

[billeau2]

Wilt had another alleged "record." it was said the stilt had so many woman that it averaged over two a day....Maybe he didn't want any of the fight game because he would have to compromise this record for the sake of the fight?

[Ray Corso]

Chamberlain wins on the basketball court easily!
Ali wins in the ring easily.
If anyone thinks that learning to box in a year will bring you to Ali's level your a complete moron. Having a huge reach is an advantage at the end of that length. What happens when the length is breached?
The advantage becomes a liability in seconds!
To think that a world champion who began boxing at 12 years old and won state, regional national and world titles as an amatuer then accomplish pro championships 3 different times will loose to a basketball player who trains for a year is ridiculous!
I have land in south Florida to sell you.......

Ray

[Elroy1]

Chamberlain wins on the basketball court easily!
Ali wins in the ring easily.
If anyone thinks that learning to box in a year will bring you to Ali's level your a complete moron. Having a huge reach is an advantage at the end of that length. What happens when the length is breached?
The advantage becomes a liability in seconds!
To think that a world champion who began boxing at 12 years old and won state, regional national and world titles as an amatuer then accomplish pro championships 3 different times will loose to a basketball player who trains for a year is ridiculous!
I have land in south Florida to sell you.......

Ray

But the size difference is simply massive. ALL he'd have to do is learn to keep him at bay with the jab and spoil him on the inside.

You badly overestimate Ali. LOOK at all the guys he lost and struggled with? You can't tell me those guys are a match for Wilt too!!

[Ray Corso]

You make the mistake of comparing common opponents. Styles make matches positive (exciting) or negative (boring) What Joe Frazier accomplished with Ali didn't transmit to Forman yet Ali had little problem solving Forman. Not everything is cut and dry in boxing, its a one on one confrontation not a team analysis.

.........."ALL he'd have to do is learn to keep him at bay with the jab and spoil him on the inside".

You make it sound so easy, anyone can box I guess!
Wilt Chamberlain was a star track & feild athlete along with his basketball accomplishments. He was also and outstanding volley ball player.
Nothing in his early years points to him being good at boxing. Having some athletic ability is a good thing when learning to box but theres far more important tangibles.

Who did Ali lose to in his prime? The first Frazier fight was a serious encounter with Ali having a few bouts prior to a young and ready Frazier. Remember they sparred as young guys so they knew each other well.
Other than that one fight Ali was never defeated in a title fight he held.
He had his best years removed from competition unjustly and still fought on.
You elroy don't see the light Ali shed on the sport and in the world. One person does NOT become the most widely recognized persoin in the world for nothing! He fought everyone and anyone and when he was knocked down he got up! He was the greatest self promoter in the history of entertainment. He is undoubtly a top 5 heavy ATG. It makes no difference what the opponents or he weighed thats a moot. There are NO limits in the division, theres no need for weighin!
You just saw a novice immatation of Ali confuss and belittle Wlad, don't tell me that a theres a huge difference between a 6'6" Wlad and a 6'7" Tyson and a 6'4" Ali when Ali is faster than both of them and Fury does NOT hit harder than Ali. Neither of them are hard hitters but Ali's straight right hand is much better than Tyson displayed last night.
Well thats enough it all gets to be blah blah blah, no one knows for sure, hell I've seen trialhorse guys beat up and knock out up and coming guys that were supposed to roll over the old timer!
Everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face! FACT!
Ray

[juggernaut666]

You make the mistake of comparing common opponents. Styles make matches positive (exciting) or negative (boring) What Joe Frazier accomplished with Ali didn't transmit to Forman yet Ali had little problem solving Forman. Not everything is cut and dry in boxing, its a one on one confrontation not a team analysis.

.........."ALL he'd have to do is learn to keep him at bay with the jab and spoil him on the inside".

You make it sound so easy, anyone can box I guess!
Wilt Chamberlain was a star track & feild athlete along with his basketball accomplishments. He was also and outstanding volley ball player.
Nothing in his early years points to him being good at boxing. Having some athletic ability is a good thing when learning to box but theres far more important tangibles.

Who did Ali lose to in his prime? The first Frazier fight was a serious encounter with Ali having a few bouts prior to a young and ready Frazier. Remember they sparred as young guys so they knew each other well.
Other than that one fight Ali was never defeated in a title fight he held.
He had his best years removed from competition unjustly and still fought on.
You elroy don't see the light Ali shed on the sport and in the world. One person does NOT become the most widely recognized persoin in the world for nothing! He fought everyone and anyone and when he was knocked down he got up! He was the greatest self promoter in the history of entertainment. He is undoubtly a top 5 heavy ATG. It makes no difference what the opponents or he weighed thats a moot. There are NO limits in the division, theres no need for weighin!
You just saw a novice immatation of Ali confuss and belittle Wlad, don't tell me that a theres a huge difference between a 6'6" Wlad and a 6'7" Tyson and a 6'4" Ali when Ali is faster than both of them and Fury does NOT hit harder than Ali. Neither of them are hard hitters but Ali's straight right hand is much better than Tyson displayed last night.
Well thats enough it all gets to be blah blah blah, no one knows for sure, hell I've seen trialhorse guys beat up and knock out up and coming guys that were supposed to roll over the old timer!
Everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face! FACT!
Ray

Ali was'nt a power puncher...foreman was you also neglect Fraizers fight weight was 205 not 215/220.


Ali at 6'3 and Tyson at 6'9 is massively different...wlad would not have much trouble reaching Ali that is not even a question .the main difference of Fury and ali is actually fury is harder to hit not just in length but more polished blocking.

[TBear]

But the size difference is simply massive. ALL he'd have to do is learn to keep him at bay with the jab and spoil him on the inside.

You badly overestimate Ali. LOOK at all the guys he lost and struggled with? You can't tell me those guys are a match for Wilt too!!

You badly under estimate Muhammad Ali. You also put far to much emphasis on size.

[billeau2]

You badly under estimate Muhammad Ali. You also put far to much emphasis on size.

And not to mention Foreman. And lets not forget that Sam Peter has shown skills that put Sonny Liston to shame...and Rahman also!

People with an agenda never learn... There are people out there convinced that the human eye can guage the supposed limits of the Earth and...it is in fact a flat plane. Thats what having an agenda does to rational thought.

[Ray Corso]

First off the coverage of the fight clearly shows that Wlad is about 6'6" unless his brother is 6'9" because Vitali towers over him. Fury is about 6'7" an inch or so over Wlad both wore flat soled boxing shoes so that was an accurate comparison.
T & bill............these boys only know size, its not an intangable its an obvious that can be distorted as I explained above.
However what they don't know is evaluating skills and how to determine abilities in a fighter.
Last night you saw a fighter under duress and he failed to perform in that situation. The reason was he had not repaired his faults from the past and had no experiences to draw from. He couldn't find range even when Fury slowed his motion down. These men go 12 rounds not 15 as the past fighters experienced. The lack of punches thrown these days would allow Ali to box 30 rds.
When your basing your results on size alone your as one dimentional as your favorite fighters.
Anyone who can't tell the difference between these fellows who don't even throw 30 punches a round and a fighter like Ali are blinded by their love hahaha...

I didn't see one block and counter by either man. Wlads corner was begging him to punch with Fury but Wlad played it safe. Its what he did if you can't see that your blind.
Ray

[Scott9945]

He just pulled the biggest upset in sports history since TYson/Douglas!

Wrong again. It wasn't even the biggest upset in sports in November 2015. Ronda Rousey was a much heavier betting favorite over Holly Holm.