How fast was Sugar Ray Robinson in 1950? Find out here.

[The plunger man]

Reports and not statistics have influenced my opinions.



I am not saying anything as an absolute - but that it is a position that can and has been argued.

When this position is made, it is with the consideration that Robinson weighed in same day as his contest and could have comfortably made the 140 limit for a considerable length of time had that division been financially worthwhile.



Each boxer is unique. Because something is an anomaly does not mean that it is not so.



Why do you punctuate sentences with "lol"?

I am aware of Robinson's opponent and their careers - you're opinion seems to have been established and defined regardless of any additional information beyond what boxrec has to offer.

Your example of Frankie Wallace I would venture was a good opponent at that stage of Robinson's career.



As I stated above, it seems unlikely to me that your opinion will change regardless of any new information.



Are perception of the discussion differs then.



Thank you for the discussion.

well my opinion has not changed for over 30 years JOE so I don't expect it will do now....as for robsinson I respect your views on walker smith and how great he was .... Have a good weekend

[The plunger man]

Yes that is a good response, yes of course there is film of Robbo as a welter and from what I see he was incredibly loose limbed and VERY VERY modern in many ways... by far not the first who often had hands low but also had the high when needed, not the first to fight an evasive style (I do thing there were better defensive fighters), Benny leonard fought in a similar fashion BUT Robinson is CERTAINLY the inspiration for the likes of Ray Leonard, Ali and Roy Jones junior... yet they also had their own personal touches. There was nothing ordinary about Sammy Angott either and it's great to watch him. Yes Robinson did have some ordinary fights.... this is guaranteed when fighters fight as often as they did way back....... NO FIGHTER EVER managed to look at their best in those conditions because they were not always at their best,,,, fighting every few weeks you are carrying injuries, or something as common as the flu into many fights so they often fought while in bad shape but they had to put food on the plate. Too many modern fighters are spoiled.

Your right when you say modern fighters are spoiled goorty....but that's come about in the last 20 years or less...PPV and big money has changed that....most fighters when I say the 80's boxed every 3 months even as a champion ...less when they was rising to the top.....but it's completely different eras to compare on....of course Robinson was a true legend of the sport and earnie shavers even by today's standards would be a huge puncher....that is something we can judge I think...in the old days when boxers fought for there short notice fights they were Against journey men and bums......even Joe Louis is famous for bum of the month and for sure Robinson had his more than fair share of cab drivers and when your actually getting matched against a fighter that has 29 victories and 35 losses it should be a cakewalk and u should be ready to fight in 3 weeks time...boxing reached its peak late 80's then it started to change for the worse.....from late 70's to 1982 boxing for me was at his peak and in a division where you had Leonard,hearns,Duran,Benitez,cuevas,palomino all in the same division is the day I say to any old time boxing fan that no era has ever surpassed that..
Patterson, Ali ,Leonard, Jones or pretty much anybody else are influenced by Ray Robinson ......but I'm pretty sure Robinson was influenced by jack Dempsey, Harry greb , Jimmy Wilde and so on....as I said before you only have to watch clips of Robinson to see his flaws in the ring.....he was far from unbeatable I'm afraid to say...

[McGoorty]

Your right when you say modern fighters are spoiled goorty....but that's come about in the last 20 years or less...PPV and big money has changed that....most fighters when I say the 80's boxed every 3 months even as a champion ...less when they was rising to the top.....but it's completely different eras to compare on....of course Robinson was a true legend of the sport and earnie shavers even by today's standards would be a huge puncher....that is something we can judge I think...in the old days when boxers fought for there short notice fights they were Against journey men and bums......even Joe Louis is famous for bum of the month and for sure Robinson had his more than fair share of cab drivers and when your actually getting matched against a fighter that has 29 victories and 35 losses it should be a cakewalk and u should be ready to fight in 3 weeks time...boxing reached its peak late 80's then it started to change for the worse.....from late 70's to 1982 boxing for me was at his peak and in a division where you had Leonard,hearns,Duran,Benitez,cuevas,palomino all in the same division is the day I say to any old time boxing fan that no era has ever surpassed that..
Patterson, Ali ,Leonard, Jones or pretty much anybody else are influenced by Ray Robinson ......but I'm pretty sure Robinson was influenced by jack Dempsey, Harry greb , Jimmy Wilde and so on....as I said before you only have to watch clips of Robinson to see his flaws in the ring.....he was far from unbeatable I'm afraid to say...

Look there have been many many great fighters, you say the 80's were the peak, I think the peak was a few decades before then, of course I remember the 80's better than any other decade and I can see how it is easy to think the way you do, it was really hard for me bact then to imagine better fighters than Ray Leonard and Hagler for instance but then I started watching old fights from way before my time and I did see many guys I thought , "oh hell who could beat these guys.... so one point here is the best from each era look rather unstoppable..... I also leaned by studying the old timers and when I think of Leonard who I think of as the best of his era I have fond memories of blistering speed and other great attributes but then I see a guy like Jack Britton who we have never seen but his record shows he had a far more incredible career, he fought more fights against AYG's than Ray Leonard had fights in total and by the way he beat most of the AYGs he fought. I can only conclude that this guy, whose films have disappeared now must have been an INCREDIBLE fighter.... his record and resume prove this. He fought torrid competition that's for sure and of course he also fought your "cab drivers"... as you probably know he had somewhere near 300 fights. I can only imagine what he looked like as a fighter but hell he fought Ted Kid Lewis 20 times and that alone is very impressive...... I also bet you that he couldn't have cared less if fighters were better or worse 60 years after he was a fighter... he had enough opponents to worry about.

[The plunger man]

Look there have been many many great fighters, you say the 80's were the peak, I think the peak was a few decades before then, of course I remember the 80's better than any other decade and I can see how it is easy to think the way you do, it was really hard for me bact then to imagine better fighters than Ray Leonard and Hagler for instance but then I started watching old fights from way before my time and I did see many guys I thought , "oh hell who could beat these guys.... so one point here is the best from each era look rather unstoppable..... I also leaned by studying the old timers and when I think of Leonard who I think of as the best of his era I have fond memories of blistering speed and other great attributes but then I see a guy like Jack Britton who we have never seen but his record shows he had a far more incredible career, he fought more fights against AYG's than Ray Leonard had fights in total and by the way he beat most of the AYGs he fought. I can only conclude that this guy, whose films have disappeared now must have been an INCREDIBLE fighter.... his record and resume prove this. He fought torrid competition that's for sure and of course he also fought your "cab drivers"... as you probably know he had somewhere near 300 fights. I can only imagine what he looked like as a fighter but hell he fought Ted Kid Lewis 20 times and that alone is very impressive...... I also bet you that he couldn't have cared less if fighters were better or worse 60 years after he was a fighter... he had enough opponents to worry about.

You live in the past and unfortunately for you I don't ...fighters from jack Johnson to jack Dempsey were crude and wild and you must seriously be blind if you see improvement in there style to say a Larry Holmes or Lennox Lewis....your talking about a jack Britton who you have not even seen fight and yet your comparing him to the best in history ...well mcgoorty if he was on a comparable skill level to a Stanley ketchel or jack johnson then you need to rethink how you judge a fighters skill level in comparing him to an all time great of the 80's...and no boxing never reached its peak before the 80's and it was impossible to do so....it's became a world dominant sport in the 80's and produced massive golabal appeal ...we don't agree that's it but as I said before ..the likes of Duran,Leonard,Sanchez ,arguello Ali ,Holmes and many more the peak of boxing in terms of skill and world dominance

[Elroy1]

Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey were good fighters now too!!

This McGoorty is off his head!

[McGoorty]

You live in the past and unfortunately for you I don't ...fighters from jack Johnson to jack Dempsey were crude and wild and you must seriously be blind if you see improvement in there style to say a Larry Holmes or Lennox Lewis....your talking about a jack Britton who you have not even seen fight and yet your comparing him to the best in history ...well mcgoorty if he was on a comparable skill level to a Stanley ketchel or jack johnson then you need to rethink how you judge a fighters skill level in comparing him to an all time great of the 80's...and no boxing never reached its peak before the 80's and it was impossible to do so....it's became a world dominant sport in the 80's and produced massive golabal appeal ...we don't agree that's it but as I said before ..the likes of Duran,Leonard,Sanchez ,arguello Ali ,Holmes and many more the peak of boxing in terms of skill and world dominance

I don't have to judge Jack Britton's skills, I leave that to the fighters, trainers and writers who saw him fight. I don't live in the past at all but pay per view means I rarely get to see top fights live anymore and have to wait for them to get on youtube. I still watch boxing, love the sport but here you go again with your agenda of trying to somehow prove the 80's fighters were way better than those of the 60's 40's 20's etc, you cannot prove your point and i cannot completely prove you wrong and I don't care tbh, you are welcome to your opinion as I don't consider you a troll, Elroy1 IS A TROLL AND AN IDIOT, LOL................................ BUT I will tell you I can say Jack Britton was one of the greats, that is beyond question, and it ain't his fault his films didn't survive, hell harry Greb's didn't either but I suppose you think he was a dumbass fighter too. The reason I can prove Brittons greatness is easy, his resume and record are simply STUNNING...... You can't use Dempsey or Johnson to say that ALL old timers from that time were somehow skill-less that is ****** and quite frankly beyond belief. Britton DOES HAVE A FAR GREATER RESUME THAN RAY LEONARD... and as for skills Benny Leonard had them all and probably far more than any fighter still active, the guy was a genius and yes he has the record to back it up.................... IN SPADES. Benny Leonard makes a mockery of you using some old heavyweights as examples, heavyweights no matter how good or how highly credentialled rarely have the skillsets of the great lightweights and feathers for example.

[McGoorty]

Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey were good fighters now too!!

This McGoorty is off his head!

Listen BOY, you are the dumbo around here, I have been part of this forum for a long long time and you are still wearing nappies (or diapers if you prefer). You are nothing but a troll and Jack Dempsey would have knocked you out in about 2 seconds flat, you'd be out cold before your head hit the canvas, you dumb turd, just go bury your head somewhere.

[The plunger man]

I don't have to judge Jack Britton's skills, I leave that to the fighters, trainers and writers who saw him fight. I don't live in the past at all but pay per view means I rarely get to see top fights live anymore and have to wait for them to get on youtube. I still watch boxing, love the sport but here you go again with your agenda of trying to somehow prove the 80's fighters were way better than those of the 60's 40's 20's etc, you cannot prove your point and i cannot completely prove you wrong and I don't care tbh, you are welcome to your opinion as I don't consider you a troll, Elroy1 IS A TROLL AND AN IDIOT, LOL................................ BUT I will tell you I can say Jack Britton was one of the greats, that is beyond question, and it ain't his fault his films didn't survive, hell harry Greb's didn't either but I suppose you think he was a dumbass fighter too. The reason I can prove Brittons greatness is easy, his resume and record are simply STUNNING...... You can't use Dempsey or Johnson to say that ALL old timers from that time were somehow skill-less that is ****** and quite frankly beyond belief. Britton DOES HAVE A FAR GREATER RESUME THAN RAY LEONARD... and as for skills Benny Leonard had them all and probably far more than any fighter still active, the guy was a genius and yes he has the record to back it up.................... IN SPADES. Benny Leonard makes a mockery of you using some old heavyweights as examples, heavyweights no matter how good or how highly credentialled rarely have the skillsets of the great lightweights and feathers for example.

It's different eras goorty and that's the issue we have here....I have no doubt benny Leonard was a fantastic fighter and intelligent in the ring and have read many stories on him in regards to using his brain to pull out a victory when defeat was staring at him.......and there are enough films of old school fighters in the late 20 and 30s for me to see boxing was much more primitive and a wild slugging match than they were in the 70 and 80 .....does he have a better resume than Ray Leonard no he doesn't because again it's a completely different era with what your talking about...there was no big promotion, no PPV all over the world and and never had to wait to build an even up....it's like comparing roger banister to Sebastian Coe ....I see with my own eyes and what I see in regards to all the old school fight films and I see it was very technically poor....just go watch Johnson vs Jess Willard or jack Dempsey vs jack Willard to see how poor they were compared with the fighters of the 80's ....it's not to down play old school fighters because it's the way it was back then ..things improve with time and practice and that's what boxing as down over the last 150 years ....you have your opinion I have mine and btw I don't consider today's boxers anywhere near the fighters of 30 years ago....I see boxing as better you see it as worse but we fight films we can judge also.....there's a clip of Harry greb sparring to get some idea what I mean

[McGoorty]

It's different eras goorty and that's the issue we have here....I have no doubt benny Leonard was a fantastic fighter and intelligent in the ring and have read many stories on him in regards to using his brain to pull out a victory when defeat was staring at him.......and there are enough films of old school fighters in the late 20 and 30s for me to see boxing was much more primitive and a wild slugging match than they were in the 70 and 80 .....does he have a better resume than Ray Leonard no he doesn't because again it's a completely different era with what your talking about...there was no big promotion, no PPV all over the world and and never had to wait to build an even up....it's like comparing roger banister to Sebastian Coe ....I see with my own eyes and what I see in regards to all the old school fight films and I see it was very technically poor....just go watch Johnson vs Jess Willard or jack Dempsey vs jack Willard to see how poor they were compared with the fighters of the 80's ....it's not to down play old school fighters because it's the way it was back then ..things improve with time and practice and that's what boxing as down over the last 150 years ....you have your opinion I have mine and btw I don't consider today's boxers anywhere near the fighters of 30 years ago....I see boxing as better you see it as worse but we fight films we can judge also.....there's a clip of Harry greb sparring to get some idea what I mean

Once again you use some of the clumsier examples here mate... Jess Willard was considered even when champion as a rather poorly skilled fighter, but if you watch B Leonard closely you will see nothing remotely primitive. Yes I know you think the fighters of the 80's quite superior to those today and there we can certainly agree.

[The plunger man]

Listen BOY, you are the dumbo around here, I have been part of this forum for a long long time and you are still wearing nappies (or diapers if you prefer). You are nothing but a troll and Jack Dempsey would have knocked you out in about 2 seconds flat, you'd be out cold before your head hit the canvas, you dumb turd, just go bury your head somewhere.

I'm not trying to prove anything with you in regards to the 80's fighters...it's you mentioning Darby or jack Britton gets me baffled ....you wrote to me at the start lol.....I think the old school fighters were nowhere the skill level of the 70's and 80's era and I think ray Robiinson in my eyes is not the greatest fighter to ever live...that's it my opinion whether you like it or not I don't care