How fast was Sugar Ray Robinson in 1950? Find out here.

[Elroy1]

Mike Tyson fought approx. every 2-3 months when many consider him "peak" - is this because his opposition was so poor?

Rocky Marciano fought approx. every 6 months during this title reign - is this because his opposition was better?

Yes, I know you would like to promote the opposite ideal if you could Joe, and full respect to you and exaggerations aside as usual ok.

OF course you have provided "specific examples".

As usual I am giving a general trend, I'm saying the connection is proven "generally".

The simplest evidence for this is that the past boxers with such extensive records have such an extensive list of mathematical bums (and often ACTUAL bums) on their record. This is in addition to the also general theory that sport/athletics improve over time.

I think you obviously know THIS part of your reckoning is "generally" speaking indefensible.

Your FOLLOWING comment though, offered something where sure, there are alternative opinions possible. That is the cause/reason why such a trend would exist.

The business of the sport today has no resemblance to that of the pre-television years and PPV changed the sport yet again.

To fight so regular requires a different mentality and approach to the sport - one that is no longer needed so it is unlikely to be seen again.

And this is true, but from a modernist mentality, this statement is not even at odds.

In fact, the increasingly intense media and market pressure has only contriuted to the professionalism of the sport.

Nobody wants to SEE a guy like Robinson rock up to fight some dud. Would that occur today he would be absolutely slammed for it.

IF Roinson were to face off against a top opponent after having fought just a couple weeks prior and didn't even train properly for it, dudes would be disgusted for lack of taking it seriously.

You are right, the business has changed.

Now I am certainly no capitalist, you have no idea! I see it as the next biggest evil after religion. But there is no denying the increase of professionalism in boxing and ALL sports across the board Joe.

To no sport can you point to and say that that is not true.

[joeandthebums]

Nobody wants to SEE a guy like Robinson rock up to fight some dud. Would that occur today he would be absolutely slammed for it.

Ignoring the financial aspects - if a Mayweather/Gonzalez/Rigondeaux wanted to fight in my nearest big city against the national/regional champion - I would be there in a flash.

It is an opportunity for established and new boxing fans to witness a special talent in person.

IF Roinson were to face off against a top opponent after having fought just a couple weeks prior and didn't even train properly for it, dudes would be disgusted for lack of taking it seriously.

I think you can eliminate phrase "didn't even train properly" - as when boxing three 10-rounders in space of 3 weeks, any conditioning training would of been done prior to the first contest.

But there is no denying the increase of professionalism in boxing and ALL sports across the board Joe.

I'm not sold on the notion that professionalism in boxing has changed.

[Elroy1]

Ignoring the financial aspects - if a Mayweather/Gonzalez/Rigondeaux wanted to fight in my nearest big city against the national/regional champion - I would be there in a flash.

It is an opportunity for established and new boxing fans to witness a special talent in person.



I think you can eliminate phrase "didn't even train properly" - as when boxing three 10-rounders in space of 3 weeks, any conditioning training would of been done prior to the first contest.



I'm not sold on the notion that professionalism in boxing has changed.

Bookmark this for next ok.

This is an important issue, I gotta sleep for work soon.

The task at hand is to produce a convincing argument in favour of the professionalism of boxing increasing toward today from past times.

I know the Juggernaut would concur too, and many many more.

It might SEEM to you Joe, that in the boxing world such a view might be considered status quo (which I disagree with on the grounds it's only the elite of boxxing fans who think that) but sport-wide it is pretty accepted (which means you are in fact arguing boxing as a "special case".)

[billeau2]

Mike Tyson fought approx. every 2-3 months when many consider him "peak" - is this because his opposition was so poor?

Rocky Marciano fought approx. every 6 months during this title reign - is this because his opposition was better?



The business of the sport today has no resemblance to that of the pre-television years and PPV changed the sport yet again.

To fight so regular requires a different mentality and approach to the sport - one that is no longer needed so it is unlikely to be seen again.

Individuals often see causality where none exists. A great example might be where I have a car that won't start. I decide to pray to the car gods and (for a strange reason) the car starts. If I do this again and it works again I might well think praying to the car gods starts cars until a wise older mechanic explains to me that the humidity in the air is such that the car won't stop cause water vapor gets into the distributor cap....Only then does it occur to me that when I pray to the car gods I make sure the sun god is there to look over his shoulder!

To put this in context, Elroy is not alone in underestimating the plethora of differences that make boxing so different in terms of how the sport has changes.

[Scott9945]

Now I am certainly no capitalist, you have no idea! I see it as the next biggest evil after religion.

Does that mean that you are a Communist?

[juggernaut666]

Ignoring the financial aspects - if a Mayweather/Gonzalez/Rigondeaux wanted to fight in my nearest big city against the national/regional champion - I would be there in a flash.

It is an opportunity for established and new boxing fans to witness a special talent in person.



I think you can eliminate phrase "didn't even train properly" - as when boxing three 10-rounders in space of 3 weeks, any conditioning training would of been done prior to the first contest.



I'm not sold on the notion that professionalism in boxing has changed.

"Ignoring the financial aspects - if a Mayweather/Gonzalez/Rigondeaux wanted to fight in my nearest big city against the national/regional champion - I would be there in a flash."


Well it may make the town happy however the boxing world would be at their throats.


"I think you can eliminate phrase "didn't even train properly" - as when boxing three 10-rounders in space of 3 weeks, any conditioning training would of been done prior to the first contest."


This would only be wear and tear on the fighter,and no fight is the same,being in condition is not the problem training for a specific opponent would be if you fought often....no way were the old time fighters in better preparation than modern ones,much more work goes into a fight against top guys these days and even lower ranked ones.,more preparation evens out the level playing field more to the less skilled boxer,since the more skilled one is already a better fighter the fighters have to be on point sice the best comes out of them,where as put the same fighters in with each other on a 2weeks notice you will get a much one sided contest to the better fighter imop...Tyson is not really a good example and the Tyson card in general when used anywhere doesn't really work considering he was on a pro level even before turning pro.He also fought credible guys who were established as either top of there game when he fought them or champs themselves. Of course he was fed the lower tier guys at the start and his talent made it relatively easy to fight often.

[Elroy1]

"Ignoring the financial aspects - if a Mayweather/Gonzalez/Rigondeaux wanted to fight in my nearest big city against the national/regional champion - I would be there in a flash."


Well it may make the town happy however the boxing world would be at their throats.


"I think you can eliminate phrase "didn't even train properly" - as when boxing three 10-rounders in space of 3 weeks, any conditioning training would of been done prior to the first contest."


This would only be wear and tear on the fighter,and no fight is the same,being in condition is not the problem training for a specific opponent would be if you fought often....no way were the old time fighters in better preparation than modern ones,much more work goes into a fight against top guys these days and even lower ranked ones.,more preparation evens out the level playing field more to the less skilled boxer,since the more skilled one is already a better fighter the fighters have to be on point sice the best comes out of them,where as put the same fighters in with each other on a 2weeks notice you will get a much one sided contest to the better fighter imop...Tyson is not really a good example and the Tyson card in general when used anywhere doesn't really work considering he was on a pro level even before turning pro.He also fought credible guys who were established as either top of there game when he fought them or champs themselves. Of course he was fed the lower tier guys at the start and his talent made it relatively easy to fight often.

I agree with all of this.

[Ray Corso]

You boys act as if the fans then didn't know who the champs were and the differences between contenders and regional talents were.
Try to get a handle on the FACTS that ppv, closed circuit, theaters, and TV were NOT around!!! Dumb azzes!
People went out to see baseball, hockey and boxing!!
If you had a show at St. Nicks arena on a Weds night with a top notch contender or a inner city favorite against Robinson the place would be packed! If the opponent wasn't a top guy they knew Sugar would give them a show and carry the fellow if need be without boring the crowd to tears. Maybe in a few years the opponent becomes a contender!
Obviously you have no idea how events then were staged and why the major stars needed to be as active as they were.
When did Floyd Mayweather travel all over the country defending or getting on a plane for a trip to France with a Pink Cadillac car?

Robinson fought LaMotta twice within three weeks did the same with Zivic. Their both outstanding competitors and you cvan't do those things unless everyone is in top condition. What they do is rest and fine tune and maintain their body with extensive exercises and some road work.
The mental preparation is the key once your in shape. Todays fighters go in & out of fighting shape 3 times a year and thats one reason they need so much sparring to get ready.
Theres is no fighter today who comes close to Robinsons conditioning and the mental aspect speaks for itself.
Ray

[juggernaut666]

You boys act as if the fans then didn't know who the champs were and the differences between contenders and regional talents were.
Try to get a handle on the FACTS that ppv, closed circuit, theaters, and TV were NOT around!!! Dumb azzes!
People went out to see baseball, hockey and boxing!!
If you had a show at St. Nicks arena on a Weds night with a top notch contender or a inner city favorite against Robinson the place would be packed! If the opponent wasn't a top guy they knew Sugar would give them a show and carry the fellow if need be without boring the crowd to tears. Maybe in a few years the opponent becomes a contender!
Obviously you have no idea how events then were staged and why the major stars needed to be as active as they were.
When did Floyd Mayweather travel all over the country defending or getting on a plane for a trip to France with a Pink Cadillac car?

Robinson fought LaMotta twice within three weeks did the same with Zivic. Their both outstanding competitors and you cvan't do those things unless everyone is in top condition. What they do is rest and fine tune and maintain their body with extensive exercises and some road work.
The mental preparation is the key once your in shape. Todays fighters go in & out of fighting shape 3 times a year and thats one reason they need so much sparring to get ready.
Theres is no fighter today who comes close to Robinsons conditioning and the mental aspect speaks for itself.
Ray

Nothing but pure nonsense....don't you read the other replies you dope?

[LacedUp]

According to Elroy, Sugar Ray Robinson would lose to Carlos Baldomir.