Sorry, but this boxers were /are incredibly overrated.

[Willie Pep 229]

That's the problem. As soon as a guys loses or even gets tested - people run and say 'he got exposed!'

Yea! If an NFL team is meant to dominate and wins close, they praise the other team for a great day, they don't say the favorite got exposed.

I think the fight game has more haters per square fan than any other sport; we have people on here that seem to hold a hatred for fighters who died decades ago. It is strange.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Boxing and boxing fans being their own worst enemies.

[mrbig1]

I think Hagler was overrated. He did beat a glass jaw Hearn. He fought Duran who was a big fat lightweight. that was a very close fight. Hagler was lucky Duran had no real power at MW. He hit Hagler when he felt like it. Then SRL who hasn't fought in years schooled Hagler. Other than that he fought a ton of bums as Champ.

[DeeMoney]

I think Hagler was overrated. He did beat a glass jaw Hearn. He fought Duran who was a big fat lightweight. that was a very close fight. Hagler was lucky Duran had no real power at MW. He hit Hagler when he felt like it. Then SRL who hasn't fought in years schooled Hagler. Other than that he fought a ton of bums as Champ.

I think you are being a bit liberal with the use of "bums". Sibson, Hamsho, Obelmejias, Mugabi, and Antefuermo were good fighters; if you consider these guys bums I'd hate to see what you think of the 99% of fighters who are not on their level.

Moreover, your evidence for how bad he was is based solely on 3 of his last 6 fights (not really his prime). Hagler, like some others, was not given the opportunities to move up the ranks and get a title shot in a timely fashion; Hearns began his title reign at 22, SRL at 23- Hagler was 26. I think if you look at Hagler from '78-'83, when he was in his prime, as opposed to just the end of his career, you may view him differently.

[billeau2]

Glad this got re-hashed; it lends to something I was thinking yesterday. According to the internet, every fighter sucks. Yup, everyone of them.

We have people who will turn any given fighter's worst efforts into the straw man argument as to why they are bad. Heck, we will look at their wins, and point out how they lost rounds as evidence of their awfulness. Heck, the OP post here brings up a given fighter as being overrated because he got lucky to knock out a HOF atg, and that he was losing at the time. Imagine that, not defeating a HOFer in all the rounds and only knocking them out late contributes to you being over rated.

Its very hipster of us boxing fans on the internet, we show off our superiority by dismissing those things others accept as being good. I am waiting for the obligatory, "my favorite fighter? You've probably never heard of him" comment so we can raise our chins in an air of pretentious supremacy. Knowing that no fighter ever was good enough for our praise.

I actually think some people are oblivious to the fact that you can qualify any victory or defeat... and the problem with this becomes, there is no such animal as a champion who fought nothing but ATG's, at prime, who never had a bad camp, and came into each fight with the champ their absolute best... Its ridiculous, I saw it twice just now in the general section on a thread comparing Lewis to Joshua. It kinda drives me nuts.

[billeau2]

Yea! If an NFL team is meant to dominate and wins close, they praise the other team for a great day, they don't say the favorite got exposed.

I think the fight game has more haters per square fan than any other sport; we have people on here that seem to hold a hatred for fighters who died decades ago. It is strange.

On the contrary tis not strange dear Willie! It is a venerable tradition! Let us take a mensch and a half! A strevedore's Strevedore, an adventurer, a writer, an animal lover and a progressive who wrote dystopian novels with themes that many believe first came out in later works like 1984... The working man never had a better friend than Jack London. Unless apparently if you were Black and succesful as a champion. The haterade was strong for Jack! and where were the noble animals, the progressive rally, when JOhnson was being mocked for being Black? When Jeffries was being pressured to represent... not values, not integrity, not skill, but the manifest destiny of his race?

Im perfectly fine with giving the general public of the day a sort of pass on cultural blindness... "all men created equal, except apparently some men" etc. But London being such a progressive really should have had some more forward thinking ideas regarding Johnson.

[mrbig1]

I think you are being a bit liberal with the use of "bums". Sibson, Hamsho, Obelmejias, Mugabi, and Antefuermo were good fighters; if you consider these guys bums I'd hate to see what you think of the 99% of fighters who are not on their level.

Moreover, your evidence for how bad he was is based solely on 3 of his last 6 fights (not really his prime). Hagler, like some others, was not given the opportunities to move up the ranks and get a title shot in a timely fashion; Hearns began his title reign at 22, SRL at 23- Hagler was 26. I think if you look at Hagler from '78-'83, when he was in his prime, as opposed to just the end of his career, you may view him differently.

You are right sir. Bum was the wrong word. I picked SRL to beat Hagler base on the Duran fight. Duran out boxed Hagler. Duran was just too small and didn't have the power at MW. Plus Monzon didn't get his title fight until he was 28. what bother me about Hagler who had great talent, but his work rate sometimes is on the slow side. Hagler did win the Antefuermo fight but it was close. In about six or seven rounds in that fight Vito just out worked him. In a interview with ring magazine they ask Bennie Briscoe who fought both monzon and Hagler. Who was the better fighter. He said Hagler. Ask him who would win if they fought he said Monzon. I seen Monzon go 10 hard fought fast pace rounds. then he would pick up the pace in the last 5. Hagler was a very good champion. He could be out boxed and out worked.

[DeeMoney]

You are right sir. Bum was the wrong word. I picked SRL to beat Hagler base on the Duran fight. Duran out boxed Hagler. Duran was just too small and didn't have the power at MW. Plus Monzon didn't get his title fight until he was 28. what bother me about Hagler who had great talent, but his work rate sometimes is on the slow side. Hagler did win the Antefuermo fight but it was close. In about six or seven rounds in that fight Vito just out worked him. In a interview with ring magazine they ask Bennie Briscoe who fought both monzon and Hagler. Who was the better fighter. He said Hagler. Ask him who would win if they fought he said Monzon. I seen Monzon go 10 hard fought fast pace rounds. then he would pick up the pace in the last 5. Hagler was a very good champion. He could be out boxed and out worked.

Yeah, I get that critique of Hagler, he was a slow starter, and sometimes that carried over, and like you wrote- he just didn't work. I'll admit a fair amount of bias here too, Hagler is probably my all time favorite fighter ever; so I will be defensive about him. But I do think that the best version of Hagler was early 80s version, thats not an excuse for not looking great/KOing Duran. But to be fair, Duran is a top 5 all time boxer in my opinion, and though smaller, he could make anyone look bad.

Hagler vs Monzon would be a helluva fight. I have no qualms with anyone writing that Monzon out works him and grinds him down; but I could also see a fight in which Hagler finds a way inside and takes the W.

[QueensburyRules]

Im perfectly fine with giving the general public of the day a sort of pass on cultural blindness... "all men created equal, except apparently some men" etc. But London being such a progressive really should have had some more forward thinking ideas regarding Johnson.

- - Without the hue and cry of London, JJ was destined to be a poorly compensated woman beater. Instead he got to sail to gay Paree' for easy defenses.

London and JJ were actually on quite friendly terms. Their circus act was for the rubes as anyone in showbiz knows.

[markusmod]

Yea! If an NFL team is meant to dominate and wins close, they praise the other team for a great day, they don't say the favorite got exposed.

I think the fight game has more haters per square fan than any other sport; we have people on here that seem to hold a hatred for fighters who died decades ago. It is strange.

Damn right, Willie!