Great Fighters beaten by a Journeyman when in their prime.

[The Old LefHook]

i seen the fight almost exactly as the judges see the fight, unlike you who would not know the difference between a boxing fight and a pillow fight.

No, sir. The fact that you see the fight the same as judges scoring under a corrupt regime shows where you are. You do not make objective judgements--ever. Your insistence on bringing Lewis into every thread, given enough time, shows where your objectivity is.

Stop touting yourself as some kind of boxing history whiz kid, for you are certainly not. You are stone cold average through and through.

You haunt this place and I can stand it, for there are others more ignorant and less readable. In fact, I kind of like you. Don't ask me why.
And 71% of the time I agree with you on boxing matters. Which means, of course, that if I don't know anything then you don't either, by your own logic.

Get back to your historical and technical business. I do not think your business is attacking me, nor mine attacking you.

[The Old LefHook]

Duran put on a heck of a fight against Hagler. It showed how good and how tough he really was. He made the rounds competitive, but he did not win them. You do not award rounds because a guy made one competitive. That is called corruption, the kind built into today's scoring and boxing commissions. What this does is keep fights artificially close on the scorecards. The fighters, knowing this, fight harder to the end, so the sponsors will not be let down. It is a strategy of the corporations that may superficially seem better for the boxing fan but does nothing to address the inherent corruption.

[sonnyboyx2]

No, sir. The fact that you see the fight the same as judges scoring under a corrupt regime shows where you are. You do not make objective judgements--ever. Your insistence on bringing Lewis into every thread, given enough time, shows where your objectivity is.

Stop touting yourself as some kind of boxing history whiz kid, for you are certainly not. You are stone cold average through and through.

You haunt this place and I can stand it, for there are others more ignorant and less readable. In fact, I kind of like you. Don't ask me why.
And 71% of the time I agree with you on boxing matters. Which means, of course, that if I don't know anything then you don't either, by your own logic.

Get back to your historical and technical business. I do not think your business is attacking me, nor mine attacking you.

funny post... If i want to bring Lewis into a post, then i will bring him into a post. No matter what the **** you say... You cannot point out to me one single thing i have ever said about Lewis which is not correct !

Duran lost the Hagler fight when Hagler rallied to win the final round.. Duran dominated through rounds 7-14.. Don't try and tell me how i seen a particular fight, i have explained how i seen the fight, which was similar to how the judges scored the fight. But you are trying to tell me, "No, i am incorrect to see the fight how i seen it".. ffs.

You then claim i haunt the forum.. again you are wrong. i am periodically on the forum between 9-5pm.. unlike yourself who is on it to the early hours.

Then you claim i am some kind of history whizz kid which i am not... i am far from being a kid at nearly 60yrs of age.. As far as history goes, i have followed the sport for nearly 50yrs. have over 22,000+ fights on VHS & DVD, have over 2000+ books, over 15,000+ magazines & programs. Have been to watch over 100 live boxing shows in the UK which included Lewis, Tyson Benn, Eubank, Calzaghe, Hamed, McGuigan and many many more.. so i know **** all about the sport, i am just stone cold average..

You claim you agree with me 71% of the time..i don't make posts for you to agree or disagree. i make posts and reply to posts on how i see the sport. if you don't agree, then say so by contributing to the debate.

Finally.. you say, "I kind of like you". ffs

[BennyST]

I have come to consider it a category in-itself. A journeyman, a gatekeeper. There are fighters who play the role very well....guy like Zab Judah, Orlando Salidad.

What in the ...

Zab Judah and Siri are journeymen gatekeepers?! Is this history section or NSB? Judah was a three time, two division, jr welterweight and undisputed welterweight champion for crying out loud! That is as far from a journeyman as it gets. Literally not even in the same galaxy.

Orlando Salido is a FOUR time world champion. In what planet is a four time world champion with wins over the top fighters and other champions in his division for a decade a journeyman?

These guys are world champions. Multiple time, multiple division, long reigning world champions!

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone in this thread. Duran was in his prime against Laing, HOF lightweight great Buchanan is mediocre, McCall is a club fighter, while Judah and Salido are journeymen.

[BennyST]

LOL...

No way was Duran anywhere near his best against Kirkland Laing.. Seriously??

he was still a good fighter at that point, but he wasn't really in shape, 154 was never Duran's ideal weight class, this is also true for the Benitez fight. The few times he turned up in shape at 154 was maybe against Davey Moore, (he was on point for that fight) Minchillo and Cuevas. Duran's TRUE prime for me was when he was at lightweight.. He was a much more destructive puncher at that weight class. I know people often point to the first Leonard or Palomino fight for Duran's prime, but I disagree. His power wasn't as devastating at welter compared to lightweight. He wasn't as quick or vicious at those weight classes. These are facts.

Why in the hell would you give me red K for suggesting that Fernandez is kind of like a Malignaggi type fighter today?! You gave it to me on the basis that Fernandez is better than Paulie, even though I clarified that Fernandez 'at his best is a better fighter than Paulie ever was'.

It was a comparison that Fernandez today would be one of those background champions, able to win minor, yet 'legitimate' titles without ever being one of the top guys...like Paulie today.

So you agree with my post, but give me red K for it...Jackass.

[IronDanHamza]

Not in his prime but Ray Robinson was dominated by Ralph Tiger Jones.

[IronDanHamza]

A lot of the old timers have some bad loss's.

Cocoa Kid beat Holman Williams 8 times.

[billeau2]

What in the ...

Zab Judah and Siri are journeymen gatekeepers?! Is this history section or NSB? Judah was a three time, two division, jr welterweight and undisputed welterweight champion for crying out loud! That is as far from a journeyman as it gets. Literally not even in the same galaxy.

Orlando Salido is a FOUR time world champion. In what planet is a four time world champion with wins over the top fighters and other champions in his division for a decade a journeyman?

These guys are world champions. Multiple time, multiple division, long reigning world champions!

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone in this thread. Duran was in his prime against Laing, HOF lightweight great Buchanan is mediocre, McCall is a club fighter, while Judah and Salido are journeymen.

Salidad really? I believe you but I was under the impression that he recently won a championship and had a reputation as a guy who was better than his record indicated. Then he denied Juan Ma. if Salidad is a 4 time champion then I stand corrected

Regarding Judah, he was a champion and occasionally does get another crack, but its been a long time, since Corrie Spinks i believe, and really since Zoo Judah has become a guy who is a tough opponent who will give maybe 4-5 rounds and then fade. Guys like Garcia etc all had to get by him though. I consider this a gatekeeper in much the same way as some veterans who are still very good, but no longer champion calibre, present a challenge to an up and commer.

[Humean]

According to those guys, his prime just happened to start in the fight directly after his last loss and has lasted to now...though his next loss he'll be suddenly out of his prime.

That is pretty much how all discussion of 'prime' goes on boxing forums. The more it is pushed the narrower the window of 'prime' gets, to the point where the poster can pinpoint a fighter's exact prime as existing for approximately 2 hours on a particular Monday afternoon in their 4th year as a pro.

[The Old LefHook]

funny post... If i want to bring Lewis into a post, then i will bring him into a post. No matter what the **** you say... You cannot point out to me one single thing i have ever said about Lewis which is not correct !

Duran lost the Hagler fight when Hagler rallied to win the final round.. Duran dominated through rounds 7-14.. Don't try and tell me how i seen a particular fight, i have explained how i seen the fight, which was similar to how the judges scored the fight. But you are trying to tell me, "No, i am incorrect to see the fight how i seen it".. ffs.

You then claim i haunt the forum.. again you are wrong. i am periodically on the forum between 9-5pm.. unlike yourself who is on it to the early hours.

Then you claim i am some kind of history whizz kid which i am not... i am far from being a kid at nearly 60yrs of age.. As far as history goes, i have followed the sport for nearly 50yrs. have over 22,000+ fights on VHS & DVD, have over 2000+ books, over 15,000+ magazines & programs. Have been to watch over 100 live boxing shows in the UK which included Lewis, Tyson Benn, Eubank, Calzaghe, Hamed, McGuigan and many many more.. so i know **** all about the sport, i am just stone cold average..

You claim you agree with me 71% of the time..i don't make posts for you to agree or disagree. i make posts and reply to posts on how i see the sport. if you don't agree, then say so by contributing to the debate.

Finally.. you say, "I kind of like you". ffs

I certainly am telling you that you saw the fight wrong. You did see it wrong, cowboy.

You are also more of an idiot than even I thought. Make it official, you really are a halfwit. Your posts have proven it consistently. Juggernuts could match you, but few others could for idiocy. I would be willing to bet your IQ is below 90. I guess 2,000 books have raised to 100 on boxing. That makes you average, pal, at best.