Why do many (not all) people consider Earnie Shavers the hardest puncher of all time

[them_apples]

I'd disagree with that ,I think what basically finished Ali was the Manila fight.Foreman shook Ali up a couple for times but Ali blocked a lot of those round house swings. Shavers didn't BTFO of Ali, nor did he ever pretend that he did,that's a load of manure. The officials and the press voted solidly for Ali.Ali fat and out of shape boxed 6rds in London soon after the Foreman fight,I was there, he made the British Champion look like a novice.

for sure. was def Frazier that did the most damage, in all 3. shavers was just extra (in terms of the shots he landed, not that he won). Foreman probably rattled Ali's insides but I would think he came out ok.

[them_apples]

Why did Ali owe George a rematch to begin with? He let him beat on him and than he knocked him out. Now after George came back and put himself in position by beating Lyle and Frazier in '76 he earned a rematch. But than he took on Young, lost, retired and no rematch. Is that really Ali's fault? The man deserved to take some time after the who's who of heavyweights he fought from '73 thru '77.

yeah outside of the fact that Foreman was a former champ which meant more back then, it's true Foreman didn't really warrant a rematch. It was actually bordering on a wash if you watch closely, its just Foreman doesn't go down nor give up that easy.

[QueensburyRules]

Why did Ali owe George a rematch to begin with? He let him beat on him and than he knocked him out. Now after George came back and put himself in position by beating Lyle and Frazier in '76 he earned a rematch. But than he took on Young, lost, retired and no rematch. Is that really Ali's fault? The man deserved to take some time after the who's who of heavyweights he fought from '73 thru '77.

- - U still don't know what grade U in.

Ali made bountiful living off rematches, even Kenny/Joe trilogies, but he makes mo' money as he admitted to the immediate rematch with George who was game to go the next day.

Not so Ali who was beat up so badly he never fully recovered as Wepner and the rest of his career show.

[Willie Pep 229]

Why did Ali owe George a rematch to begin with? He let him beat on him and than he knocked him out. Now after George came back and put himself in position by beating Lyle and Frazier in '76 he earned a rematch. But than he took on Young, lost, retired and no rematch. Is that really Ali's fault? The man deserved to take some time after the who's who of heavyweights he fought from '73 thru '77.

Not weighing in on this one directly - but I think every champion should get an immediate rematch.

Maybe one should have to best a champion twice to truly take his title. The wrestling squad I was on in HS had a condition that to take a team member's uniform you had to best him twice in a row.

This made the team stronger by weeding out freak challenge match results where we would end up having to wrestle a weaker wrestler because he got lucky in a challenge match one time.

[markusmod]

yeah outside of the fact that Foreman was a former champ which meant more back then, it's true Foreman didn't really warrant a rematch. It was actually bordering on a wash if you watch closely, its just Foreman doesn't go down nor give up that easy.

Yeah, George wasn't looking for a second go.

[Willie Pep 229]

Yeah, George wasn't looking for a second go.

I saw him call for a rematch at the Zaire airport the day after the fight. Why would you say he didn't want a rematch?

[Ivich]

Not weighing in on this one directly - but I think every champion should get an immediate rematch.

Maybe one should have to best a champion twice to truly take his title. The wrestling squad I was on in HS had a condition that to take a team member's uniform you had to best him twice in a row.

This made the team stronger by weeding out freak challenge match results where we would end up having to wrestle a weaker wrestler because he got lucky in a challenge match one time.

Automatic rematches began to be frowned on back in the 60's because of the possibility of champions not giving of their best in the initial matches Jimmy Carter back in the 50's being an example . More importantly because it tied up titles for too long preventing deserving challengers getting their shot,eg Liston waiting around whilst Floyd and Ingo played ."pass the parcel" with the title.Personally I think immediate rematches are only justified when the loser has put up a great competitive fight and not when he has been blown away eg Floyd v Liston.

[JAB5239]

Not weighing in on this one directly - but I think every champion should get an immediate rematch.

Maybe one should have to best a champion twice to truly take his title. The wrestling squad I was on in HS had a condition that to take a team member's uniform you had to best him twice in a row.

This made the team stronger by weeding out freak challenge match results where we would end up having to wrestle a weaker wrestler because he got lucky in a challenge match one time.

I think I would agree to this more in a case like DeLahoya-Trinidad or Backus-Napoles than Ali-Foreman. I mean, Ali knocked him out. He let hit hit him, than stopped him. I don't think that deserves an immediate rematch. It wasn't a lucky punch nor a cut. He won fair and square, decisively.

[JAB5239]

- - U still don't know what grade U in.

Ali made bountiful living off rematches, even Kenny/Joe trilogies, but he makes mo' money as he admitted to the immediate rematch with George who was game to go the next day.

Not so Ali who was beat up so badly he never fully recovered as Wepner and the rest of his career show.

The Norton and Frazier fights were not nearly as decisive as the Foreman fight. If that were the case than you would agree Ali deserved an immediate rematch against Frazier, right?

You can say Ali never fully recovered from the Foreman fight.....you're probably right. Just as he never fully recovered from Frazier or the 3 years he was forced to unjustly sit out of boxing. It doesnt make a difference that Foreman had not earned an immediate rematch.

[QueensburyRules]

The Norton and Frazier fights were not nearly as decisive as the Foreman fight. If that were the case than you would agree Ali deserved an immediate rematch against Frazier, right?

You can say Ali never fully recovered from the Foreman fight.....you're probably right. Just as he never fully recovered from Frazier or the 3 years he was forced to unjustly sit out of boxing. It doesnt make a difference that Foreman had not earned an immediate rematch.

- - Foreman KO 9th rd when George was on his feet at 9 seconds after his first ever KD ain't conclusive.

Ali, Bundini, Herbert, and especially Ferdie knew it when he read the riot act to Ali and Herbert to never fight George again, the damage already done being permanent in nature.