Where does Roy Jones rank?

[joseph5620]

HI

Your not confronting my points.. Chavez and Whittaker while past prime were still world class fighters, especially whittaker.. Guys like mccallum and hill were way past it...

Just name Roy's best ten wins, or his great wins between toney and ruiz?

As for fighters that beat better opponents, I will just use superstars that were on the same level as roy jones in the 90s

Lennox, holyfield, and bowe took on more challenges IMO
Oscar was fighting jeff mayweather in his fifth fight right around the time roy fought hopkins.. Then the next year roy fought toney, and that was it till ruiz, while Oscar fought genero, ruales, molina, leija, chavez twice, pernell, Ike, oba, tito,
Roy was fighting guys similar in caliber to oscars Camacho.. A name, decent fighter, but not really a threat ie REGGIE, del Valle, merqui Sosa, paz, lucas, etc

I would also think that toney took more challenges in the 90s with Roy, montel twice, mccallum twice, nunn, Barkley, prince

One could even make the case for the small guys like carbajal, tapia, etc taking more risks than roy,,

I just don't see how one can argue that roy wasn't in cruise control for most of his prime and really didn't take challenges again until his hbo deal ran out, then it was ruiz, tarver 3 times, tito, calzaghe, lacy, hopkins 2, lebedev...
Roy took on tons of big names once he was done milking hbo

Whitaker was beyond past prime. Look at his three previous fights and the fact that he only fought three more times losing twice with one on contest. And it's not like Oscar put in a dominating performance.


Chavez was well past it too. World class has nothing to with it. Chavez was essentially done at the top and never had another major win.


I don't have time to go through every point but I'll say your camacho comparison is ridiculous. Del Valle and Johnson were fighting and beating contenders in the division and had belts while long past prime Camacho was fighting true club fighters, 40 year old shot Ray Leonard, and struggling to beat an ancient Roberto Duran. But he still managed to somehow get a shot at Oscar.

You say Jones "only has two great wins" as if that's common. Great fighters don't come around often and beating them in their prime is a big accomplishment.


Your double standards amaze me. Griffin is a good win for Toney but not Jones. Prince Charles Williams is a good win but Johnson isn't. Barkley's a good win but Virgil Hill is not. Eric Lucas was good enough to win a belt after the Jones fight. I don't get it.



And no, one can not argue for Tapia or Carbajal.

I cant say Lennox has a win as good as Toney or Hopkins either.

[IronDanHamza]

The champs at 175 were not great... Why were none of them a big fight..

Montel is a decent win, so is Harding, and probably gonazlaez.. The rest were pretty overmatched opponents.. And none were even remotely a big fight..




Nice cop out...

So your gonna ignore that roy had a 9 year break between big fights.. And had exactly one big fight before that stretch.. That's pretty lame for the "fighter of the 90s"

Floyd has a better resume at 154 than roy does at 175 in terms of opponents..
Cotto, canelo,mand Oscar are way better than del Valle, old mccallum, reggie, Otis, montel, etc....

9 years is twice as long as the manny/floyd saga... I don't know any other superstar fighter that doesnt have a big fight in over 9 years.
But I guess people fall in love with all the fantastic highlights of roy vs inferior opponents and forget who he was actually fighting...

Name another superstar that went 9 years without a big fight

The Champions at Heavyweight weren't great.

The champions at MW in 1993 weren't great but you're saying Jones should have fought John David Jackson instead of Hopkins because he had a belt.

Cop out? You STILL haven't given me a reason why it's post Toney.

[IronDanHamza]

Whitaker was beyond past prime. Look at his three previous fights and the fact that he only fought three more times losing twice with one on contest. And it's not like Oscar put in a dominating performance.


Chavez was well past it too. World class has nothing to with it. Chavez was essentially done at the top and never had another major win.


I don't have time to go through every point but I'll say your camacho comparison is ridiculous. Del valle and Johnson were fighting and beating contenders in the division ans had belts while long past prime Camacho was fighting true club fighters 40 year old shot Ray Leonard, and struggling to beat an ancient Roberto Duran. But he still managed to somehow get a shot at Oscar.

You say Jones "only has two great wins" as if that's common. Great fighters don't come around often and beating them in their prime is a big accomplishment.


Your double standards amaze me. Griffith is a good win for Toney but not Jones. Prince Charles Williams is a good win but Johnson isn't. Barkley's a good win but Virgil Hill is not. Eric Lucas was good enough to win a belt after the Jones fight. I don't get it.



And no, one can not argue for Tapia or Carbajal.

Exactly.

Rahman, McCall, Bruno

It's ridiculous.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Whitaker was beyond past prime. Look at his three previous fights and the fact that he only fought three more times losing twice with one on contest. And it's not like Oscar put in a dominating performance.


Chavez was well past it too. World class has nothing to with it. Chavez was essentially done at the top and never had another major win.


I don't have time to go through every point but I'll say your camacho comparison is ridiculous. Del valle and Johnson were fighting and beating contenders in the division ans had belts while long past prime Camacho was fighting true club fighters 40 year old shot Ray Leonard, and struggling to beat an ancient Roberto Duran. But he still managed to somehow get a shot at Oscar.

You say Jones "only has two great wins" as if that's common. Great fighters don't come around often and beating them in their prime is a big accomplishment.


Your double standards amaze me. Griffith is a good win for Toney but not Jones. Prince Charles Williams is a good win but Johnson isn't. Barkley's a good win but Virgil Hill is not. Eric Lucas was good enough to win a belt after the Jones fight. I don't get it.



And no, one can not argue for Tapia or Carbajal.

Honestly all the guys from post toney to ruiz where nowhere near threatening.

There is a nine year stretch where roy didn't have any big fights.. I don't know why everyone refuses to acknowledge that..
It would be like floyd fighting nothing but ghost Guerrero, victor Ortiz, baldomir type fights for nine straight years..

It's not a knock on Roy's abiltiy, but if your comparing his resume to other superstar resumes, I have never seen a superstar go nine years without a major fight... Who else has ever done that? I think that just can't be discounted when comparing his resume to other greats...

And that's what we are doing here, comparing his resume in atg rankings.. Of course his light heavy campaign would be a fantastic run for any fighter, but compared to atg resumes, roy has very little depth to his in terms of big fights

Lennox
Evander
Oscar
Tito
Hopkins
Klitchko
Floyd
Manny
Morales
Cotto
Barrera
Pernell
Chavez

Any of the true superstars of boxing in the PPv era, none went 9 years without a big fight

[joseph5620]

Exactly.

Rahman, McCall, Bruno

It's ridiculous.

Another major point you made is the fact thatLennox does not have a win on his resume that tops Toney or Hopkins. The contenders he fought are not any better than the fighters on Jones resume either.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

The Champions at Heavyweight weren't great.

The champions at MW in 1993 weren't great but you're saying Jones should have fought John David Jackson instead of Hopkins because he had a belt.

Cop out? You STILL haven't given me a reason why it's post Toney.

The reason is we are talking about the depth of his resume,,, how many big fights... Do you understand that point
88-92 no big fights
93 hopkins
94 toney
95-03 no big fights
03 ruiz, tarver

Does that make sense,,,

So quit copping out and explain why it's ok to discount the fact that roy went 9 years with no big fights

Exactly.

Rahman, McCall, Bruno

It's ridiculous.

Still waiting for you to list Roy's top 10 or 15 best wins and show me all these big fights that shows the depth and not the top heavy shallowness I proclaim

I have asked many times in this thread, but all you do is criticize my points without really refuting anything or answering anything..

So go ahead and list these big fights throughout Roy's career, and then compare that schedule vs other superstars schedule of fights

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Another major point you made is the fact thatLennox does not have a win on his resume that tops Toney or Hopkins. The contenders he fought are not any better than the fighters on Jones resume either.

We are talking about depth, not single big win.... Yeah roy has a huge win over toney and coasted off it for a decade,,,,

name his next big fight after toney?

[IronDanHamza]

Honestly all the guys from post toney to ruiz where nowhere near threatening.

There is a nine year stretch where roy didn't have any big fights.. I don't know why everyone refuses to acknowledge that..
It would be like floyd fighting nothing but ghost Guerrero, victor Ortiz, baldomir type fights for nine straight years..

It's not a knock on Roy's abiltiy, but if your comparing his resume to other superstar resumes, I have never seen a superstar go nine years without a major fight... Who else has ever done that? I think that just can't be discounted when comparing his resume to other greats...

And that's what we are doing here, comparing his resume in atg rankings.. Of course his light heavy campaign would be a fantastic run for any fighter, but compared to atg resumes, roy has very little depth to his in terms of big fights

Lennox
Evander
Oscar
Tito
Hopkins
Klitchko
Floyd
Manny
Morales
Cotto
Barrera
Pernell
Chavez

Any of the true superstars of boxing in the PPv era, none went 9 years without a big fight

Of course.

When Lewis was fighting "Prime" killers like McCall, Bruno, Rahman, Botha, Akinwande and the rest.

Jones was crushing fighting guys no where near that level.

[IronDanHamza]

The reason is we are talking about the depth of his resume,,, how many big fights... Do you understand that point
88-92 no big fights
93 hopkins
94 toney
95-03 no big fights
03 ruiz, tarver

Does that make sense,,,

So quit copping out and explain why it's ok to discount the fact that roy went 9 years with no big fights



Still waiting for you to list Roy's top 10 or 15 best wins and show me all these big fights that shows the depth and not the top heavy shallowness I proclaim

I have asked many times in this thread, but all you do is criticize my points without really refuting anything or answering anything..

So go ahead and list these big fights throughout Roy's career, and then compare that schedule vs other superstars schedule of fights

No it doesn't make sense.

Jones has plenty of good wins between 94-2003. Plenty.

Maybe not Rahman and McCall or Akinwande level but you know, wins like that don't come around often.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Of course.

When Lewis was fighting "Prime" killers like McCall, Bruno, Rahman, Botha, Akinwande and the rest.

Jones was crushing fighting guys no where near that level.

Why won't you name Roy's top 10 big fights

Prime Bruno
Prime rudduck
Prime Morrison
Prime mercer
prime golata
Prime briggs
Prime Rahman
Prime McCall
Prime Akwinada
Prime tua
Prime Michael grant
Prime vitali

That's 12 major fights for lennox and I didn't even use the 2 evander fights, and tyson, or a prime tua

Go ahead and list Roy's