was dempsey a bum?

[HOUDINI563]

Farley siding with the black side of the argument helped solidify the black vote for decades to come for the ******** party.

[Willie Pep 229]

I'm not sure what you are claiming this means. That he was an evil man for wanting Dempsey to fight Wills?

Of course he held out on the Tunney fight. He made it very clear that the fight was to be for Wills.

You hear that he thought Dempsey ducked Wills, and you are already putting out rumors of gangsters paying him Same tactic GhostofForgery used. "Let's pull rumors out of thin air because he doesn't agree with me."

What YOU need to start doing is realizing that Dempsey ducked Wills. You believe his words, yet ignore his lies, like him claiming he never drew the color line. Now we find out he drew the color line even before becoming champion.



I love how you guys attack anyone and everyone, but you won't attack Dempsey for breaking that contract. In fact....I can't even get anyone to discuss the broken contract with me anymore. I wonder why.

Right, he reinstates Carnera three days before the Sharkey fight, he tries to force a 'title' onto the fight, but he's not dirty with the gangsters? I guess Carnera was clean too.

Rumors vs. a preponderance of evidence, they're not the same thing.

Oh Yes! BTW it's seems contracts are only valid when they suit his needs. The Dempsey contract was sacred, the Garden contract with Carnera, well, you know, he "dismissed" that one.

[travestyny]

Right, he reinstates Carnera three days before the Sharkey fight, he tries to force a 'title' onto the fight, but he's not dirty with the gangsters? I guess Carnera was clean too.

I know nothing about this situation but what I'm wondering is what does this have to do with him wanting Dempsey to fight Wills.

Shouldn't EVERYONE have wanted Dempsey to fight Wills? So what's the problem? That's what I don't understand. I asked you before what specifically did he do wrong regarding the Wills/Dempsey situation, but you didn't give a clear answer.

Rumors vs. a preponderance of evidence, they're not the same thing.

Oh Yes! BTW it's seems contracts are only valid when they suit his needs. The Dempsey contract was sacred, the Garden contract with Carnera, well, you know, he "dismissed" that one.

What Dempsey contract? I don't think he was concerned with the Dempsey contract in Chicago.


But please tell me, what did he do wrong regarding Dempsey/Wills? Was it wrong for him to push for Wills to get the fight after being the #1 contender for years and the public calling for it, or what?

[HOUDINI563]

The historical record indicates that Dempsey DID NOT duck Wills. This was the conclusion formed by those close to the situation in the 20’s as well as historians who wrote the major Dempsey bios. Read The idol of Fistania from 1929 or The Manassa Mauler from 2003. Both come to similar conclusions.

[travestyny]

The historical record indicates that Dempsey DID NOT duck Wills. This was the conclusion formed by those close to the situation in the 20’s as well as historians who wrote the major Dempsey bios. Read The idol of Fistania from 1929 or The Manassa Mauler from 2003. Both come to similar conclusions.

Is that contract a part of this historical record, or nah?


Was Farley close to the situation?


Do you answer questions?

[HOUDINI563]

Wonderful synopsis of the history surrounding Dempsey Wills plus rare footage of Wills to support he had no means to beat Dempsey. He let opponents fall inside his reach easily. As per Kearns “no fighter could beat Dempsey fighting in this manner. Dempsey would crush their ribs”

As per boxing’s greatest trainer “Wills was a good Journeyman” and “was none too fast”. Dempsey feasted off of larger slower opponents. Remember Arcel watched Dempsey since 1916 (Lester bout) and worked with Wills trainer for years. He knew the fighters from this age more so than anyone.

[HOUDINI563]

https://fightfilmcollector.blogspot....ls-vs.html?m=1

[travestyny]

Wonderful synopsis of the history surrounding Dempsey Wills plus rare footage of Wills to support he had no means to beat Dempsey. He let opponents fall inside his reach easily. As per Kearns “no fighter could beat Dempsey fighting in this manner. Dempsey would crush their ribs”

As per boxing’s greatest trainer “Wills was a good Journeyman” and “was none too fast”. Dempsey feasted off of larger slower opponents. Remember Arcel watched Dempsey since 1916 (Lester bout) and worked with Wills trainer for years. He knew the fighters from this age more so than anyone.

What does this have to do with Dempsey dodging the fight?

[travestyny]

Here's some more for the "historical record."

Phoenix Tribune -- July 1 1922
Dempsey is Yellow, Says Noted Writer

Jack Dempsey....is afraid to meet Harry Wills...is the way two of the best sporting authorities of the country, (white) summed up the repeated refusal of Dempsey to meet the colored contender. We heartily agree with them.

Great Falls Tribune -- September 12, 1922
Polo Grounds Stadum Would Permit Cheap Seats for Wills' and Champ's Encounter

Considering the foregoing facts it is inconceivable how Dempsey can any longer dodge a meeting with Wills.

The Chicago Whip -- January 22, 1922
Wills and Dempsey

The method Dempsey is employing to dodge the issue of meeting Wills is simply ludicrous, when he persists in saying that the public does not want such a match. Do you think for a moment that W. A. Brady, a man who has had years of study of handling the public, would attempt to stage such a match where he not convinced of its popular demand? If so, you have another thought coming, for Brady is no novice at the boxing game, and when he speaks, it is with force.

St. Paul Echo / The Negro Press
Dempsey's New Championship

Dempsey had the brazen face to say that for five years he has been trying to get Harry in the ring. We must at least compliment Dempsey's nerve; it certainly takes nerve to say publicly, boldly and in big print something that everybody knows is untrue. Wills has been the one chasing Dempsey, since the memory of the fun runneth not to the contrary

Has the boxing commission ever had to threaten Wills to try to make him contract with Dempsey? Has the commission ever had to order Wills to set a date for a bout with Dempsey? Has wills ever forfeited $50,000 just to keep from meeting Dempsey? Has any promoter ever had to get an injunction against Wills to try to make him live up to contract to box Dempsey? Has Wills ever pretended, as Dempsey has pretended, that the lack of financial inducement stood in the way?

Phoenix Tribune - Aug 19, 1922
It would seem to the casual observer that there is a concerted movement on foot to assure the white race of maintaining the title belt for heavyweights. The constant dodging of Dempsey himself and the strategic moves of his many white friends are but indications that they fear the crown will pass to a colored man if Dempsey should meet Wills in a championship bout.

The Broad Ax - October 2nd, 1926
The downfall of Mr. Jack Dempsey...is not unlike the plight of a white man, who having been injured in a wreck, preferred death to a ride to the hospital in an ambulance which bore the body of a colored man.

Mr. Dempsey, aided by Mr. Rickard and several other good American "sportsmen," did not think it was ethical to fight Mar. harry Wills, and those years of dodging--not fighting--took their toll from Mr. Dempsey's once husky frame.

Phoenix Tribune -- Sept. 16, 1922
Dempsey is Still Trying to Dodge Match with Wills

Mr. Dempsey must think that Wills is somewhat of a "Panther," for he continually refuses--not in words--but in actions, to be enticed to sit on a three legged stool opposite the bronze adonis. And why? Just because he knows that when that fateful day comes, the championship is likely, very likely to once again change hands.

The Chicago Whip

Dempsey has succeeded in dodging Wills for some time, even though it is a known fact that the bronze fighter has been for some time the most logical contender for a chance at the championship trophy.

New York Herald -- June 11, 1922

Dempsey apparently is dodging this one very carefully. As carefully as Wilson is dodging Greb, and Kilbane is dodging Johnny Dundee.

Some time ago Jack Kearns said, "Dempsey will fight Wills if the public demands the bout."

The public is demanding the bout about as emphatically as the public ever has demanded a bout.

The Seattle Star -- June 14, 1922
Expert thinks Dempsey is Dodging Harry Wills

Dempsey already has staggered prospective promoters with a tip that he wants $500,000 for his next big performance.

If Wills would be willing to accept about $50 for his share, then the fight might be possible.

Grand Forks Herald -- July 17, 1922

Jack Dempsey was unquestionably dodging a bout with Harry Wills. Whether he feared his prowess or was disinclined to box a colored fight4er is not known, but he had no desire to run afoul of the New York Commission and has signed a blanket contract to meet Wills probably next July 4th.

La Plata -- May 18, 1923

In taking on Tom Gibbons in a 15 round "fight"...Jack Dempsey again dodged Harry Wills, the dangerous Negro Champion.

So do we ignore this historical record? Can upload any of these on request.

[GhostofDempsey]

Wonderful synopsis of the history surrounding Dempsey Wills plus rare footage of Wills to support he had no means to beat Dempsey. He let opponents fall inside his reach easily. As per Kearns “no fighter could beat Dempsey fighting in this manner. Dempsey would crush their ribs”

As per boxing’s greatest trainer “Wills was a good Journeyman” and “was none too fast”. Dempsey feasted off of larger slower opponents. Remember Arcel watched Dempsey since 1916 (Lester bout) and worked with Wills trainer for years. He knew the fighters from this age more so than anyone.

Truth. All one has to do is look at footage of Wills and Jeannette to know they would not have stood a chance. Anyone who knows anything about boxing can see that, only graduates of Google University conduct biased “research” loaded with anonymous sources try to prove otherwise.

Watch Jeannette, clinch, grab, lean back from punches, hands at sides, grab again. He would have been starched by Dempsey.