was dempsey a bum?

[QueensburyRules]

Pretty sure Wills doesn't bare any blame in the matter. The way some posters try to absolve Dempsey and turn around and now try to place some blame on Wills is so ludicrous that it's funny.

Just shows how delusional and sad some of the fanatics are. Avoid the facts and blame anyone and anything except the one man who ran away from this fight.

- -Pay attention, Einstein.

I don't blame Wills or Dempsey for the horrid state politics of their era that were impossible to overcome.

In 1915 Langford and Gunboat Smith who never drew a color line had their bout yanked in SAMs hometown of Boston because of exploding racial politics of the day.

It took a heroic effort by the boxing community and the Sheriff who cited US Constitutional rights or something along those lines to get the bout reinstalled.

Dempsey as a kid in Salt Lake City used to be handyman for Young (Peter Jackson) that I may change the name after verification.

A former black fighter full of HOF names. He would schedule fights there for his stable and sometimes in a no show Jack would substitute. Since this was a private gym, I doubt few if any were recorded much like the uncounted thousands of fights from back in the day.

[HOUDINI563]

The history has been well written over the years. The vast majority do not conclude Dempsey was afraid to fight Wills nor that he was to blame for the bout not coming off. To believe otherwise means one is ignoring this written record.

Cherry picking data is one way to form and present false conclusions.

[travestyny]

- -Pay attention, Einstein.

I don't blame Wills or Dempsey for the horrid state politics of their era that were impossible to overcome.

In 1915 Langford and Gunboat Smith who never drew a color line had their bout yanked in SAMs hometown of Boston because of exploding racial politics of the day.

It took a heroic effort by the boxing community and the Sheriff who cited US Constitutional rights or something along those lines to get the bout reinstalled.

Dempsey as a kid in Salt Lake City used to be handyman for Young (Peter Jackson) that I may change the name after verification.

A former black fighter full of HOF names. He would schedule fights there for his stable and sometimes in a no show Jack would substitute. Since this was a private gym, I doubt few if any were recorded much like the uncounted thousands of fights from back in the day.

Dude, all of this is irrelevant.

You guys avoid the events of 1926 like the plague. When one of you is willing to address that contract with me, I'll know you're looking for the truth.

[travestyny]

The history has been well written over the years. The vast majority do not conclude Dempsey was afraid to fight Wills nor that he was to blame for the bout not coming off. To believe otherwise means one is ignoring this written record.

Cherry picking data is one way to form and present false conclusions.

I can show written record of plenty of people 100 years ago who thought Dempsey was ducking Wills, so I don't think you are correct. I've already shown Commissioner Farley stating that it is his belief that Dempsey was ducking.

And this is the same dude who the boxing hall of fame named the award for integrity and honesty for!

[QueensburyRules]

I can show written record of plenty of people 100 years ago who thought Dempsey was ducking Wills, so I don't think you are correct. I've already shown Commissioner Farley stating that it is his belief that Dempsey was ducking.

And this is the same dude who the boxing hall of fame named the award for integrity and honesty for!

- -U want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

[travestyny]

- -U want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

I'll take the medal. Thanks.

[QueensburyRules]

Dude, all of this is irrelevant.

You guys avoid the events of 1926 like the plague. When one of you is willing to address that contract with me, I'll know you're looking for the truth.

- -Boxing contracts in the 1920s is it?

Why do we all think you'd be the fainting goat in that era?

[travestyny]

- -Boxing contracts in the 1920s is it?

Why do we all think you'd be the fainting goat in that era?

Have you taken your medication today? Go to bed.

[Willie Pep 229]

Did you know about this?




I'm not saying it means anything definitive. I'm just saying...you have to admit that's pretty funny in hindsight of our convo

A few words from Jeffrey T. Sammons, Beyond the Ring, on Honest James Farley.

When the NYSAC relented and recognized the Dempsey-Tunney fight in 1926, there was one hold out on the commission: "James Farley, a ******** who was not willing to abandon his Harlem consistency, held fast and filed a minority report." Page 76

In 1930 we again find Honest James Farley at it:

". . . despite Carnera's record, the Madison Square Garden had signed the hapless giant to an exclusive contract . . . On April 27th 1931 the NYSAC reinstated Carnera for a bout against Jack Sharkey at Ebbetts Filed. When reminded of the contract between the Garden and Carnera , Commission Chairman James A. Farley dismissed it and went on the offensive, declaring the April 30th Carnera-Sharkey fight would be for the heavyweight crown.

NYSAC exceeded its bounds by stepping directly into the realm of promotion, an injudicious move that underscored the image of the athletic commissions as a self-serving, self-interested, and entitled, not regulatory agencies.

Recognizing the inherent political problem of state control, sportswriter John Kieran made an urgent plea for a national governing body that could and would enforce ethics without regard for partisan politics, financial gain, or local prestige. His call would be repeated by others throughout the years. Page 88

It looks like your boy Honest James Farley was actually one of the very first corrupt commissioners who motivated many calls for a national governing body, a call that goes on to this day.

You should stop putting so much weight into testimonials, they're almost always BS.

The NYSAC was Tammany through and through. The NYSAC was created, appointed and controlled by Tammany Hall politicians, including Farley. One wonders how much Farley got paid for reinstating Carnera after he had been suspended for the Godfrey fight (just three days before the Sharkey fight) and then tried to force a 'championship' label onto the (first) Sharkey-Carnera fight, in 1931?

I wonder how much the gangsters paid him? But its OK he has an award named after him.

[travestyny]

A few words from Jeffrey T. Sammons, Beyond the Ring, on Honest James Farley.

When the NYSAC relented and recognized the Dempsey-Tunney fight in 1926, there was one hold out on the commission: "James Farley, a ******** who was not willing to abandon his Harlem consistency, held fast and filed a minority report." Page 76

In 1930 we again find Honest James Farley at it:

". . . despite Carnera's record, the Madison Square Garden had signed the hapless giant to an exclusive contract . . . On April 27th 1931 the NYSAC reinstated Carnera for a bout against Jack Sharkey at Ebbetts Filed. When reminded of the contract between the Garden and Carnera , Commission Chairman James A. Farley dismissed it and went on the offensive, declaring the April 30th Carnera-Sharkey fight would be for the heavyweight crown.

NYSAC exceeded its bounds by stepping directly into the realm of promotion, an injudicious move that underscored the image of the athletic commissions as a self-serving, self-interested, and entitled, not regulatory agencies.

Recognizing the inherent political problem of state control, sportswriter John Kieran made an urgent plea for a national governing body that could and would enforce ethics without regard for partisan politics, financial gain, or local prestige. His call would be repeated by others throughout the years. Page 88

It looks like your boy Honest James Farley was actually one of the very first corrupt commissioners who motivated many calls for a national governing body, a call that goes on to this day.

You should stop putting so much weight into testimonials, they're almost always BS.

The NYSAC was Tammany through and through. The NYSAC was created, appointed and controlled by Tammany Hall politicians, including Farley. One wonders how much Farley got paid for reinstating Carnera after he had been suspended for the Godfrey fight (just three days before the Sharkey fight) and then tried to force a 'championship' label onto the (first) Sharkey-Carnera fight, in 1931?

I wonder how much the gangsters paid him? But its OK he has an award named after him.

I'm not sure what you are claiming this means. That he was an evil man for wanting Dempsey to fight Wills?

Of course he held out on the Tunney fight. He made it very clear that the fight was to be for Wills.

You hear that he thought Dempsey ducked Wills, and you are already putting out rumors of gangsters paying him Same tactic GhostofForgery used. "Let's pull rumors out of thin air because he doesn't agree with me."

What YOU need to start doing is realizing that Dempsey ducked Wills. You believe his words, yet ignore his lies, like him claiming he never drew the color line. Now we find out he drew the color line even before becoming champion.



I love how you guys attack anyone and everyone, but you won't attack Dempsey for breaking that contract. In fact....I can't even get anyone to discuss the broken contract with me anymore. I wonder why.