Prime Ali vs Prime Marciano: Who wins?

[juggernaut666]

I ain't going anywhere you wannabe pretend expert. Looking forward to your next ban though...

Im sure you are..ironically you use two accounts and that's exceptable and we ALL know you do...lmao

[Scott9945]

Im sure you are..ironically you use two accounts and that's exceptable and we ALL know you do...lmao

I have only one account here. If you can prove otherwise, I'll disappear forever. The moderators for this forum know that for a fact. Sorry you can't conveniently condense your multiple enemies.

[juggernaut666]

I have only one account here. If you can prove otherwise, I'll disappear forever. The moderators for this forum know that for a fact. Sorry you can't conveniently condense your multiple enemies.

I don't want you to dissappear ,really clowning you who always comes at me like your trying to get a point, and always fail is quite amusing actually.....ive already cught you a few times answering for the other account and vice vera...you are also the only two account besides corsothat uses the word liar directed at someone....coincidence nope! multiple eemies? More like my multiple stooges...you and corso which equals 3 stooges on here.

[juggernaut666]

Scott and couple that you and joseph are in C.A and both have in the past stated getting home late and tired from a late job....yea sure you are one account..e mods maybe cant or wont prove it but only an imbecile would think otherwise...the old "PROVE" it angle aye?..lmao

[Scott9945]

Scott and couple that you and joseph are in C.A and both have in the past stated getting home late and tired from a late job....yea sure you are one account..e mods maybe cant or wont prove it but only an imbecile would think otherwise...the old "PROVE" it angle aye?..lmao

Yeah, proving an accusation is a strange concept to you.

Both of us live in CA (C.A.?). Very su****ious coincidence. I'm home by dinner time every night so that is just more BS from you.

Tbear and Battling Nelson both know that we are different people. I have numerous PM's over the years that Joseph and I have exchanged. If you think I would bother to stage those then you are even more paranoid than you are ******. But go ahead and keep making false accusations and maybe your next ban will come even sooner? We can only hope because your atrocious typing, spelling, and grammar is painful to read.

[rightsideup]

Yeah, proving an accusation is a strange concept to you.

Both of us live in CA (C.A.?). Very su****ious coincidence. I'm home by dinner time every night so that is just more BS from you.

Tbear and Battling Nelson both know that we are different people. I have numerous PM's over the years that Joseph and I have exchanged. If you think I would bother to stage those then you are even more paranoid than you are ******. But go ahead and keep making false accusations and maybe your next ban will come even sooner? We can only hope because your atrocious typing, spelling, and grammar is painful to read.

frankly I have had a few pms to both scott and Joseph and I do not believe that they are the same people but occassionaly each of them will call out people that have bizarre posts. I have had a few pms and talked about other sports based on certain avatars that are on joesph page for example they have different interests,I will call out people that flame certain fighters in a history section just to get a rise out of people as well. I am I the third account of the same person. BS if your a person who cannot objectively discuss topics in this section and attack people that can see thru your agenda
then go find another area to find less knowledgeable people about the subject manor and go BS them.
Frankly both Scott and Joseph seem to be rational people and my impression is that Scott is a very enthusiastic person who has observed many of the fighters live or in real time so I value his impute as much as anyone on this section. If Scott9945, Ray Corso, and others thoughs on fighters are consistent with great boxing minds like Ray Arcel, eddie futch, angelo dundee and others that have spent a lifetime in boxing at the highest level am I to throw that all out and agree with Elroy or even some others that just seem to have a personal issue with certain fighters. I think not.

[Syf]

Frazier didn't have Rock's same power I would say. I also wouldn't say Rocky was a plodding fighter. He had a methodical shuffle step that always enabled him to be set to throw for maximum damage. It impacted his mobility, sure, but also allowed him to throw from very unexpected angles with authority. He had a left hook he could double up and even triple up very effectively. He was the definition of a two handed fighter because his right separated people from their senses if he landed it flush.

Pertaining to Ali, Watch the Moore fight. Rocky had highly underrated timing. Moore was defensively very good and although faded by the time that fight happened you'll notice in some of their classic exchanges, Rock would wait a fraction of a second after Moore tried to slip to the side and fire the long left hook.. Then he would time Moore defense and offensive release and fire a long RIGHT hook. ( A challenging punch to throw with proficiency!)It was the equivalent of a broadside in naval military terms. He repeated this for a classic volley across the ring where Moore was valiantly fighting but being out gunned and out angled.This tactic just battered Moore.

Rocky's ability to fire to 2-3 o'clock... Then PIVOT and fire to 9-10 o'clock with fluidity and grace and destruction was just superb. You can see him do this when he kd Ezz Charles in the second fight. Slipped the left hook? here comes the right from an angle unexpected! Marciano was NOT intimidated by a give and take, or by the size of his opponent... Walcott and others had size on him.

He was a bruiser. As with Lastarza, He could fire a lazy left, come in for what the opponent assumes may be a clinch, but turn over the overhand right. He lands that overhand, and it's good night. Rock could throw a mean 3,4, 5.. Or 4,3, 6! As well. This also could be trouble for the taller Ali, who tends to have a bad habit of leaving his chin in the air.

So yeah, as I said... I would favor 60's Ali to stay on the perimeter use that excellent jab and do what Lastarza couldn't do in the first fight. But to completely discount Rocky Marciano is not advisable.

Rocky had slow and stand still footwork..he pawed his jab not really throwing it much until he saw a clear shot ,he waited long on it then slowly slid in to punchers range..when hit he would step back reset often.When Aggressive he would throw wild hooks coming in this however again is where reach is his downfall of telegraphing those shots to a 6'3 78 inch reach fighter who would simply lean back. As the fight went longer Rocky rarely took backward steps and clinched and hit to body mostly…against opponents going backwards after he ate a shot he would always lunge in to counter , however these were slow punches a better fighter would easily avoid..against jabbers like a walcott he would have to stop and pasue ,rethink to continue the forward attack…Ali would not only jab him to death but he would have backward and lateral movement that would frustrate and beat Marciano mentallytake into account cuts.



Frazier was able to get away with a win over Ali simply he had longer reach and more head movement and was less hesitant …the biggest factor everyone is over looking is Frazier had better footwork or actual footwork compared to Marciano.Even only a one arm fighter with those attributes would be a much better advantage than Marciano would have. Chin doesn’t really come into play,Frazier never cut Marciano did.

[rightsideup]

Frazier didn't have Rock's same power I would say. I also wouldn't say Rocky was a plodding fighter. He had a methodical shuffle step that always enabled him to be set to throw for maximum damage. It impacted his mobility, sure, but also allowed him to throw from very unexpected angles with authority. He had a left hook he could double up and even triple up very effectively. He was the definition of a two handed fighter because his right separated people from their senses if he landed it flush.

Pertaining to Ali, Watch the Moore fight. Rocky had highly underrated timing. Moore was defensively very good and although faded by the time that fight happened you'll notice in some of their classic exchanges, Rock would wait a fraction of a second after Moore tried to slip to the side and fire the long left hook.. Then he would time Moore defense and offensive release and fire a long RIGHT hook. ( A challenging punch to throw with proficiency!)It was the equivalent of a broadside in naval military terms. He repeated this for a classic volley across the ring where Moore was valiantly fighting but being out gunned and out angled.This tactic just battered Moore.

Rocky's ability to fire to 2-3 o'clock... Then PIVOT and fire to 9-10 o'clock with fluidity and grace and destruction was just superb. You can see him do this when he kd Ezz Charles in the second fight. Slipped the left hook? here comes the right from an angle unexpected! Marciano was NOT intimidated by a give and take, or by the size of his opponent... Walcott and others had size on him.

He was a bruiser. As with Lastarza, He could fire a lazy left, come in for what the opponent assumes may be a clinch, but turn over the overhand right. He lands that overhand, and it's good night. Rock could throw a mean 3,4, 5.. Or 4,3, 6! As well. This also could be trouble for the taller Ali, who tends to have a bad habit of leaving his chin in the air.

So yeah, as I said... I would favor 60's Ali to stay on the perimeter use that excellent jab and do what Lastarza couldn't do in the first fight. But to completely discount Rocky Marciano is not advisable.

very interesting analyst I will have to check out those tussles to view your observations

[juggernaut666]

frankly I have had a few pms to both scott and Joseph and I do not believe that they are the same people but occassionaly each of them will call out people that have bizarre posts. I have had a few pms and talked about other sports based on certain avatars that are on joesph page for example they have different interests,I will call out people that flame certain fighters in a history section just to get a rise out of people as well. I am I the third account of the same person. BS if your a person who cannot objectively discuss topics in this section and attack people that can see thru your agenda
then go find another area to find less knowledgeable people about the subject manor and go BS them.
Frankly both Scott and Joseph seem to be rational people and my impression is that Scott is a very enthusiastic person who has observed many of the fighters live or in real time so I value his impute as much as anyone on this section. If Scott9945, Ray Corso, and others thoughs on fighters are consistent with great boxing minds like Ray Arcel, eddie futch, angelo dundee and others that have spent a lifetime in boxing at the highest level am I to throw that all out and agree with Elroy or even some others that just seem to have a personal issue with certain fighters. I think not.

Either way they are two imbeciles who I constantly correct ,,,funny thing is one cant take the heat the other jumps immediaitely on...as for catchingthem replying to the others thread that's a FACT...kiddo as well as them same rhetoric style and words in the past that they stopped when Sonny caught on to "THEM" which is why they cut that double team b.s out at least cut it down!" They" have no leg to stand on calling anyone out beleive me, if they were smart they would stop posting to me altogether well you see here right?....

Go through my posts on here and you will see highly intelligent info or opinions not the same old rehash of what is known or common sense...I think even the smartest peer here...bill would agree with me even if he doesn't agree with my stance..not that I actually care what you or anyone else thinks,as most that I post I save for personal info, I don't expect smart posts to be the norm on any forum.Only cosro the fool will not because hes limited and cant stand some one else who has boxing credibility outside the average poster who just follows boxing and that can expand on other eras where he doesn't have the capacity too.....

[juggernaut666]

Frazier didn't have Rock's same power I would say. I also wouldn't say Rocky was a plodding fighter. He had a methodical shuffle step that always enabled him to be set to throw for maximum damage. It impacted his mobility, sure, but also allowed him to throw from very unexpected angles with authority. He had a left hook he could double up and even triple up very effectively. He was the definition of a two handed fighter because his right separated people from their senses if he landed it flush.

Pertaining to Ali, Watch the Moore fight. Rocky had highly underrated timing. Moore was defensively very good and although faded by the time that fight happened you'll notice in some of their classic exchanges, Rock would wait a fraction of a second after Moore tried to slip to the side and fire the long left hook.. Then he would time Moore defense and offensive release and fire a long RIGHT hook. ( A challenging punch to throw with proficiency!)It was the equivalent of a broadside in naval military terms. He repeated this for a classic volley across the ring where Moore was valiantly fighting but being out gunned and out angled.This tactic just battered Moore.

Rocky's ability to fire to 2-3 o'clock... Then PIVOT and fire to 9-10 o'clock with fluidity and grace and destruction was just superb. You can see him do this when he kd Ezz Charles in the second fight. Slipped the left hook? here comes the right from an angle unexpected! Marciano was NOT intimidated by a give and take, or by the size of his opponent... Walcott and others had size on him.

He was a bruiser. As with Lastarza, He could fire a lazy left, come in for what the opponent assumes may be a clinch, but turn over the overhand right. He lands that overhand, and it's good night. Rock could throw a mean 3,4, 5.. Or 4,3, 6! As well. This also could be trouble for the taller Ali, who tends to have a bad habit of leaving his chin in the air.

So yeah, as I said... I would favor 60's Ali to stay on the perimeter use that excellent jab and do what Lastarza couldn't do in the first fight. But to completely discount Rocky Marciano is not advisable.

Yes the key word is timing...however many thought La starza won the first fight either way....The breakdown you posted is good but again its HIS era...how good would his timing be on a moving 6'3 mover? Probably not good,add in his speed vs Alis and its that much more difficult. If Ali was about 6'0 with a 75 inch reach then maybe I would give him a better chance but its simply not the case here.to much is often placed on intimidation giving credit to a fighter as way to win...its false most fighters in the ring are there to fight once the bell rings its just a job and a job they are trained to do...all that intimidation is smoke and mirrors really , I don't believe anyone was afraid of ali or feared his mind...its who had the better skills once the bell rang who was going to win and if anything most couldn't wait to try and shut his mouth.


Sonny liston may have been a bit different as he severly out sized guys then and never said anything which made him more intimidating in THAT era so I would say he is of exception.