Jack Johnson v Wladimir Klitschko

[Scott9945]

This fight would be a horrible snoozer with about 30 clinches a round,,, Ref will be busy in this one

That's a safe a prediction. Most of Johnson's fights looked like Klitschko-Povetkin.

[billeau2]

I hear what people are saying but there is a lot more subtlety to the grappling in those fights than meets the eye. Its kind of like Sumo. It looks like two fat guys running at each other...in fact there is a lot going on with position, with how the slaps are set up, with sinking the weight.

But I understand why people would think differently.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I hear what people are saying but there is a lot more subtlety to the grappling in those fights than meets the eye. Its kind of like Sumo. It looks like two fat guys running at each other...in fact there is a lot going on with position, with how the slaps are set up, with sinking the weight.

But I understand why people would think differently.

That's fine in mma, but this is boxing.. I wanna see the sweet science not grappling

[Daddy T]

so long between them its hard to judge but I'd imagine wlad would hug him to death on route to a UD in the greatest snoozefest of all time

[billeau2]

That's fine in mma, but this is boxing.. I wanna see the sweet science not grappling

A lot of the fights back then involved a lot of close quarters. People also fought out of the clinch. If you look at the postures the defensive posture had the head back with the weight back so it was difficult to get a head shot without coming inside, its hard to imagine that because boxers now a days virtually never put their entire body weight towards the back leg even if fighting off the back leg. Or, if they do the legs are still relatively close together.

Whe guys went on offense they sometimes totally squared up and caught punches off th gloves....Something Johnson was a master at, and something Roy Jones does.

I think that the grappling was unavoidable.

[billeau2]

so long between them its hard to judge but I'd imagine wlad would hug him to death on route to a UD in the greatest snoozefest of all time

Well.....That to me is true except that fighters knew how to deal with that and still "hit." There are all kinds of techniques to hit while someone is trying to clinch you. If you watch Johnson one thing you will see is when he was clinching his feet were dancing around with the opponent. Again, not to belabor a point, but you see this with classical Ju Jutsu and into Judo. This has the effect of neutralizing strength and allowing one to find positions instead of being held.

[billeau2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUqhJzgSj4M

Ok, a picture is worth a million words. In this clip watch how Johnson initiates, controls the grapple from the getgo and moves into position as things get at close quarters.

The first thing one should notice that is different is how now a days fighters clinque accidentally and deal with it as a separate range AFTER it happens. By contrast one can see Johnson preparing to go into that rahge with arm position and the way he positions his body. BTW this position is almost exactly the classical Ju Jutsu position.

I dont think Johnson would let anyone come into close quarters without controlling the opponent in this manner and it has very little to do with size and strength.

Let me just say: this is stuff that I study for my practice so that is why I get carried away with it....if I get too absurd I can take a hint haha. I just love the way JJ initiates that control before close quarters. That is true subtle movement and I don't believe that the Klits would know how to deal with that...no ref would break it up at that time if Johnson was moving away, holding one arm and hitting with the other! You will see Johnson trapping arms in this vid BTW.

[soul_survivor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUqhJzgSj4M

Ok, a picture is worth a million words. In this clip watch how Johnson initiates, controls the grapple from the getgo and moves into position as things get at close quarters.

The first thing one should notice that is different is how now a days fighters clinque accidentally and deal with it as a separate range AFTER it happens. By contrast one can see Johnson preparing to go into that rahge with arm position and the way he positions his body. BTW this position is almost exactly the classical Ju Jutsu position.

I dont think Johnson would let anyone come into close quarters without controlling the opponent in this manner and it has very little to do with size and strength.

Let me just say: this is stuff that I study for my practice so that is why I get carried away with it....if I get too absurd I can take a hint haha. I just love the way JJ initiates that control before close quarters. That is true subtle movement and I don't believe that the Klits would know how to deal with that...no ref would break it up at that time if Johnson was moving away, holding one arm and hitting with the other! You will see Johnson trapping arms in this vid BTW.

Great work, interesting to have that view on it. JJ does look to purposefully position his opponents where he wants them, much like Hopkins and I think Wlad. He doesn't do it with much subtlety but just looking back at the Povetkin fight, he pushed Pov around and positioned him so he was open for the right hand.

I odubt JJ could do the same to someone of Wlads size and strength, I can't see anyway in JJ wins a clear victory here.

[billeau2]

Great work, interesting to have that view on it. JJ does look to purposefully position his opponents where he wants them, much like Hopkins and I think Wlad. He doesn't do it with much subtlety but just looking back at the Povetkin fight, he pushed Pov around and positioned him so he was open for the right hand.

I odubt JJ could do the same to someone of Wlads size and strength, I can't see anyway in JJ wins a clear victory here.

Thanks.

yeah Hopkins has very much maintained the lost art. Ward also.

[Japanese Boxing]

Depends on the rules.