Jack Johnson v Wladimir Klitschko

[soul_survivor]

The definitive heavyweight champion of the early 20th century against the definitive heavyweight champion of 21st century. Who wins and how?

My 2 pence is this, Johnson could move well and from what I've seen of him, had very good hand speed. Sadly he would be exceptionally under sized against Wlad but if Wlad is too negative, then i can see Johnson managing to out hustle and out work Wlad to a points decision. If Wlad decides to impose his size, reach and power, he could hurt Johnson and win by a stoppage.

[LacedUp]

Wlad stops Johnson relatively easily.

[billeau2]

In a twelve round fight with big gloves under today's conditions Johnson would have to adjust to the rules, size disparity etc.

In Johnson's day with the prolifieration of grappling, the round differences, the size of the ring etc, Johnson would probably exhaust a bigger man.

People will say that the big punch of Vlad or Vitalie would be the difference but we know from experience that a good grappler neutralizes a lot of punching power and in those days boxing had certain similarities to MMA, as there was a considerable amount of standing grappling.

[soul_survivor]

Definitely a lot of grappling in those days but surely that would work in Wlad's favour?

[MartinC]

Johnson would be able to outbox Wlad and would reach that delicate chin.

[billeau2]

Definitely a lot of grappling in those days but surely that would work in Wlad's favour?

i can only tell you what criteria i consider a valid indication of answering this question. In the infancy of MMA it was assumed that bigger stronger guys would dominate. In fact the Gracie Brothers because of understanding how to grapple properly were unbeatable until others learned how to neutralize a grappling attack.

Grappling is more than ground fighting, it has a lot to do with standing position and skill in controlling the person while standing. You can see this when you observe two Ju Jitsu players trying to gain an advantage. You can see this translate to boxing as well. Hollyfield beat Tyson up because he used a Ju Jitsu principle known as "triangulation." Instead of moving back off of Tyson like his opponents usually did, Holly trained to push into Tyson and put him on his heels thus nullifying his power.

The Klitschkos are big and Vitalie is strong, but neither brother had the requisite grappling skills to fight in those days. Now agree or disagree at least you know what criteria I am using and what data I suspect is relevant! I could be mistaken but its been my experience teaching classical grappling techniques to some MMA players, that these technical approaches are able to stop a puncher who is incapable of fighting inside, or of grappling.

The Klitsckos at their size, keeping in mind that they are truly big enough at the weight that they cannot lose anything without losing muscle mass, have very little endurance and get winded relatively easily compared to a fighter like Johnson or Dempsey. Grappling would really wind them quickly and probably neutralize a lot of their power relatively quickly at which point a guy like Johnson would have the speed to smother inside. I doubt the Klitschkos would last long under those conditions.

[soul_survivor]

I own't argue with u on the MMA part cos I don't know enough about it in terms of training and participant but even boxing in the early 20th century wasn't the grappling that we see in MMA now or in the past. It was basically two guys hugging and pushing each other. Wlad would have been too big to get pushed around by Johnson, he'd bare his huge weight advantage onto Johnson's neck and shoulders, like he did to Povetkin.

Then, when Johnson looked to get on the outside, Wlad would out jab him and throw a few strong rights. I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion, but Wlad has more chances of hurting JJ than vice versa.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

So hard to tell, since the game has changed so much,,,

Johnson's awkward style would probably cause wlad some problems, but in a modern fight i think wlad would win on points....


This fight would be a horrible snoozer with about 30 clinches a round,,, Ref will be busy in this one

[BattlingNelson]

Definitely a lot of grappling in those days but surely that would work in Wlad's favour?

Haha.

Yeah. I dont think Johnson has a chance no matter what rules the fight is under.

[Capaedia]

Wlad would murk Johnson. Their styles are not too different actually. Johnson relied on being physically stronger than his opponent and i think Wlad is the safe bet for the stronger man.

Both are chinny, Wlad is much rangier and powerful with a great jab. Johnsons sole advantage would be willingness to throw power punches, but i think Wlads jab negates that until he gets an opportunity to hit him with something good.

Itd be an atrocious fight.


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