Jack Johnson v Wladimir Klitschko

[soul_survivor]

Want to take this one Billeau? You're better versed in MMA than I am and can 'splain things better.....

I think he already explained the MMA part, which I fully understand, but no matter how you train and how good you are at pushing if a guy has huge weight advantage combined with a huge height advantage, then there are no two ways about it.

Johnson would probably be tired by the half way point by just trying to move Wlad around and land a few shots. Wlad has got to be a favourite in this bout.

[Felix25]

Ive read this thread with interest and would like to add a few comments.

Much has been made of the grappling-skills of the old-timers... and I like the sumo analogy! Im sure that in the few seconds a sumo match lasts a lot more than meets my untrained eye takes place. Otherwise it would just be two fat guys pushing each other - so Im prepared to accept that there must be more to it than that.

However, Ive seen a few YouTube fights with Johnson... and Im wondering about these great grappling-skills people are talking about. In Tommy Burns and Jim Flynn he meets two much smaller boxers and here his sole infighting tactic seems to be to grap the back of his opponents upper arms, just below the armpit, and pull him close. Is this a "skill"? It does seem to render his opponents unable to do much - so I suppose you could say it is. But is it any more subtle and refined than Wlad tying up his man and leaning on him?

Against Willard Johnson is up against a much taller opponent where such a tactic doesnt work. The whole fight looks very strange to me: for long periods of time they seem to be just standing there, feinting and waiting, outside each others reach... after which one of them would make an offensive move that would result in them ending up in a clinch. And what happens in the clinch? Nothing! No punching, no pushing or wrestling, no one trying to gain an advantage in any way... they just waltz quietly around, gently holding each others arms until they are parted.

Maybe Im missing something or dont understand what im looking at - but those grappling-skills that are supposed to give a tall, modern fighter like Wlad trouble... sorry, but I just dont see it!

[AlisGoldDoco]

It's hard to compare fighters from different time periods. Are they fighting in Klitschko's era or Johnson's? Or somewhere in the middle.
I think what you have to do is compare natural ability and determination. In my opinion, it's gotta go to Johnson. But it's close.

[Ascended]

No one made midcard fighting like Jack in 40s-30s,let alone 70s-90s,why did lunatics give him a chance he would be destroyed, people here really don't watch full or semi matches,instead they like to act like their reading a book imagining what the visual would look like bunch of weirdos

[Ascended]

Thats a valid enough reason Paw, boxing has evolved so much since the early 20th century, most of the great fighters (not stomping on their achievements) couldn't hold a candle to most mid level guys in the modern game. Check old clips or the likes of Fitzsimmons, JJ and so on and its all hugging, pushing with limited defence.

Guys from 1930 on wards have a better claim against a lot of the best fighters from the 60s on wards as the sport had become more sophisticated by then.

No watch full matches,highlights are the reasons idiots here are giving Jack a chance,
Same reason they give dempsey/pep chances vs guys in 70s-90s,watching highlights,but in full matches they look very obsolete,stop watching highlights they are worthless

when a person watches all of the Willard footage we can see everything they did,and they look horrible

and no 30s-40s don't have any claim cause no one made pro fighting thst obsolete in 70s-90s,and the 70s look very basic compared to 90s