Top 20 of all times?

[IronDanHamza]

I think it's debatable who has a better resume of Chavez and Roy Jones. In fact, I'd say it's pretty comparable.

Don't think it's really debatable.

Chavez resume isn't that good really and often overrated.

[joseph5620]

Don't think it's really debatable.

Chavez resume isn't that good really and often overrated.

I agree 100 percent about Chavez.

[billeau2]

Here's a crack at my top 20 ATG list. There are a few notables I've left out, but it is mainly down to me not being able to give an accurate enough account of their status as ATGs.

Who's on your list?

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Jack Johnson
8. Roberto Duran
9. Willie Pep
10. Gene Tunney
11. Micky Walker
12. Sam Langford
13. Julio Cesar Chavez
14. Joe Gans
15. Archie Moore
16. Sugar Ray Leonard
17. Jack Dempsey
18. Kid Chocolate
19. Jimmy Wilde
20. Barbados Joe Walcott

But but buttttt you left out....Roy Jones! Sorry couldn't resist.

[billeau2]

Why does that lessen his resume? Was Roy Jones not knocked out by Tarver at a similar stage in his career?

Because being KO'ed comes from a proverbial lucky punch. One is "caught" and it can happen to anyone really, hence the expression "a puncher's chance" But when one is totally outclassed it means that an opponent has shown that you do not belong in the same ring, that you are orders of magnitude less skilled. Chavez could not do anything to Sweet Pea.

[LacedUp]

Don't think it's really debatable.

Chavez resume isn't that good really and often overrated.

I think you could say the same about Roy Jones' resume. The best win of either resume is probably Toney, we can agree on that.

I think Taylor, Camacho, Rosario, Haugen, Mayweather, Miranda, Ramirez etc were very solid wins and some would be better than a lot of Roy Jones' better wins.

I would agree that Chavez probably fought more below-par opposition, but he also fought much more often than Jones.

But but buttttt you left out....Roy Jones! Sorry couldn't resist.

I don't think Roy Jones is top 20. But I did shamefully leave out Ezzard Charles who would have been in my top 5.

[billeau2]

...and Jones was brutally knocked out by Tarver at the same stage of their careers. The Whitaker loss was a big fight, and great win for SP, as was the Jones win for Tarver, but both were at the tail end of their careers.

Now this point I would have to concede: Namely that Chavez was at the tail end of his career. That is true. Fair enough mr Benny!!

[LacedUp]

Because being KO'ed comes from a proverbial lucky punch. One is "caught" and it can happen to anyone really, hence the expression "a puncher's chance" But when one is totally outclassed it means that an opponent has shown that you do not belong in the same ring, that you are orders of magnitude less skilled. Chavez could not do anything to Sweet Pea.

I can't agree at all and I don't think it was a lucky punch.

[billeau2]

I can't agree at all.

Fine we can agree to disagree....The fact of the matter is I have bigger fish to Fry namely I was recently contacted by Boxing Goat and welterschmaltz and asked to present their very own top twenty list!! They thought I might be an appropriate person to present the list because we are such great buddies here at Boxing Scene....

So without further ado here is Weltershmaltz and Boxing Goat's top 20 List


1. Tied Vlad and Vitali Klitschko
2. Lamont Brewster
3. Sam Peter
4. Corrie Sanders
5. Wacht
6. David Haye
7.Eddie Chambers
8. Shannon Briggs
9. Adamezk
10.derrick chisora
11. kevin johnson
12.sosnowski
13.charr
14.arreola
15.johnson
16. bean
17.lewis
18. louis
19. schmelling
20. prima canero/butter bean

[RubenSonny]

I think it's debatable who has a better resume of Chavez and Roy Jones. In fact, I'd say it's pretty comparable.

Then why be so adamant that Jones isn't in the top 20 but have Chavez in yours? Would you also care to explain how Wilde is greater than Jones?

[RubenSonny]

I'm assuming your talking about jimmy Wilde and jack johnson, so correct me if I'm wrong...

Roy should def be ahead of jimmy Wilde,, Wilde was just a big puncher and from all I have read, he seems to have peaked when boxing as a sport was still in its infancy and was still really crude... I doubt he would have much success from 1915-present..

Jack Johnson is a lot closer, but Roy I believe was better h2h and resumes are pretty even, but probably a slight edge to Roy.. I use to rank johnson much higher but lately I've realized johnson gets a lot of "bonus points" for going thru all the racial stuff,,in the end the outside the ring stuff shouldn't affect your rating

Chavez i give a slight edge to... H2h I think Roy could beat him, but it's close, and I favor chavez's resume more... I got Chavez around 18, Roy around 25

Roy is way ahead of dempsey

Then why is it so unacceptable for Jones to be in a top 20 when you admitted that guys in yours where splitting hairs with Jones? It really doesn't make sense. Not to mention some of the guys in your top 20 are a whole lot more unacceptable than Jones.