Frazier beats everybody Marciano beat ...

[Ivich]

He doesnt have 20 lbs of muscle on Rocky. They are built differently. Frazier above 200 starts getting softer. Even vs Ali at 204 he wasnt ripped, just in good shape. Frazier had poor eating habits and even Bob foster, the one he said Frazier would drink like a fish asked him how he would go 15 rounds the way he did. Joe just pointed to his head and said its all in the mind.

joe was often in the high 190s during the earlier days of his career. Contrast that with Rocky who started around 193 and then really turned up the training even more so to compensate for his physical lackings. I dont buy “frazier has 20 lbs of muscle on him” against Rocky. I would imagine Rocky is the stronger fighter. Even in his computer match with Ali, you can still see with his small size he is a freak of strength just by his gait and movements. It looked similar to when He fought Joe Louis. Louis was much bigger and seemingly better muscled but was almost tossed around by Rocky. (Purely looking at the fight in a physical sense). The more I look into this stuff the less weight seems to matter at all, even in modern day situations. I mean, we just saw usyk beat Joshua without too much trouble.

Frazier at 205 lbs was not carrying any surplus weight
Frazier only scaled under 200lbs 3 times in his entire career.
For his 5th fight against Mel Turnbow for which he was199lbs
For his 7th fight against Charlie Polite for which he was197lbs
For his 11 th fight against Al Jones for which he was199lbs
He was just 22 years old for those fights.

From July 26th 1966 until he retired he was over 200lbs
These are all his major fights up to and including FOTC
Daniels 202lbs
Bonavena 203lbs
Machen 205lbslbs
Jones 205lbs
Chuvalo205lbs
Mathis 205lbs
Bonavena203lbs
Ziggy205lbs
Quarry 203lbs
Ellis 205lbs
Foster 209lbs
Ali 205lbs
Remarkably consistent and not flabby in any of those fights.
Frazier put on the performance of his on March the 8th 1971, and I can't think of a better one by any heavyweight.
Guess what? His best weight was between 203 and 205lbs!

Muscles don't equal strength
Louis was shot to bits, on his comeback he'd been kept away from bangers and had a job finishing off those men he did fight.I think several of the crop would have beaten him given the chance ,but owing to his debt problems he asked for and go the top dollar fighting Marciano,,considerably more than Rocky got.

[them_apples]

Frazier at 205 lbs was not carrying any surplus weight
Frazier only scaled under 200lbs 3 times in his entire career.
For his 5th fight against Mel Turnbow for which he was199lbs
For his 7th fight against Charlie Polite for which he was197lbs
For his 11 th fight against Al Jones for which he was199lbs
He was just 22 years old for those fights.

From July 26th 1966 until he retired he was over 200lbs
These are all his major fights up to and including FOTC
Daniels 202lbs
Bonavena 203lbs
Machen 205lbslbs
Jones 205lbs
Chuvalo205lbs
Mathis 205lbs
Bonavena203lbs
Ziggy205lbs
Quarry 203lbs
Ellis 205lbs
Foster 209lbs
Ali 205lbs
Remarkably consistent and not flabby in any of those fights.
Frazier put on the performance of his on March the 8th 1971, and I can't think of a better one by any heavyweight.
Guess what? His best weight was between 203 and 205lbs!

Muscles don't equal strength
Louis was shot to bits, on his comeback he'd been kept away from bangers and had a job finishing of those men he did fight.I think several of the crop would have beaten him given the chance ,but owing to his debt problems he asked for and go the top dollar fighting Marciano,,considerably more than Rocky got.

Well isnt this sort of what ive been saying? I still think he looked smooth at 205. Frazier was in great shape but he probably didnt diet well by the sounds of it

my last 5 posts have been talking about this, big muscles don't always mean big results.

[Ivich]

Well isnt this sort of what ive been saying? I still think he looked smooth at 205. Frazier was in great shape but he probably didnt diet well by the sounds of it

my last 5 posts have been talking about this, big muscles don't always mean big results.

.
Worlds strongest man podgy Paul Anderson. No flab on Frazier at 205lbs only boxed under 200lbs 3 times when just 22 years old.Optimum fighting weight around 205lbs. ie about 20lbs heavier than Marciano,and not 20 lbs of fat.

[QueensburyRules]

Ali had his jaw X rayed and went home, Frazier spent two weeks in the hospital so who took the," almighty beating"?
My Wife is diabetic and has high blood pressure you're not telling me anything here.
You got one thing right Mercante did poke his finger in Frazier's eye.Congratulations ,you're batting one out of 50!

You have no primary sources and we both know it.If you have produce them,prove me wrong!
What makes you call the BP meds of the 1970's primitive? What evidence have you that this is the case?
Beta Blockers for example came in during the early 60's.

What does my length of tenure here have to do with my knowledge?
I'm no expert, just an average fight fan of over 60 years, however I'd confidently match my historical knowledge against yours!

- - I could poke a billion primary sources through the hole in U noggin to watch them take flight out the other end. Ali was seconds away from his first Liston fight being called off because he couldn't pass the physical with highly elevated BP and heart rate.

And it was Ali exiting the ring with the grapefruit lodged in his mouth, not Joe.

[Ivich]

- - I could poke a billion primary sources through the hole in U noggin to watch them take flight out the other end. Ali was seconds away from his first Liston fight being called off because he couldn't pass the physical with highly elevated BP and heart rate.

And it was Ali exiting the ring with the grapefruit lodged in his mouth, not Joe.

You do know that an hour later Ali's own Doctor took his blood pressure and it registered normal?
Let me give you some sorely needed information.The Miami Beach Commission Doctor who examined Ali was Dr Alex Robbins.,after Ali had put on his act Dr Robbins took his BP and found it to be 200/100.Robbins was at a loss as to how this could have happened in a healthy athlete.Enter the great boxing writer Jimmy Cannon as old school as they come.Cannon posed the question to Dr Robbins."could it be that the kid is scared to death Doc?"Yes,yes said Dr Robbins he is scared to death and if his blood pressure is the same at fight time it is all off." Note the words AT FIGHT TIME
NO SECONDS AWAY FROM THE FIGHT BEING CALLED OFF!
Ali leaves the medical and returns to his rented house ,accompanied by Dr Ferdie Pacheco.Once in the house Pacheco takes Ali's blood pressure it registers 120/80 NORMAL Pacheco asks Ali ,"Why did you do that Ali? Why did you act so nutty up there in front of all those people?"
Ali replies."Because Liston thinks I am a nut.He is scared of no man ,but he is scared of a nut because he doesn't know what I am going to do."
Source .Fight Doctor by Ferdie Pacheco MD

To be honest this is rather embarrassing,any fight follower of my time knew this several decades ago.The fact that you were completely ignorant of the facts and then thought you would give me a lecture on it is totally bizarre! Christ fella I lived through those years, I've been following boxing for over 60 years! Any fight fan my age knows this story and the background and circumstances of it! Its old,very old news!


Ali put on a great act to convince Liston he was a nut, in doing so he temporarily raised his heart beat and BP.
This has been common knowledge for at least 5 decades and here you are triumphantly announcing it as though it it some new revelation!LOL!
Its actually hysterically funny!
Ali had a haematoma on the right side of his face from Joe's left hooks it was x rayed for a possible break ,none was found and he went home .end of.
Do you see this as some kind of points scoring,ie who was worse off physically? Because,if you do there is no argument ,Frazier was in the hospital for two weeks! I'll take pity on you ,and throw you a bone to gnaw on. Ali had badly bruised hip bones from the body shots they gave him much more discomfort than his swollen cheek.

[QueensburyRules]

You do know that an hour later Ali's own Doctor took his blood pressure and it registered normal?
Let me give you some sorely needed information.The Miami Beach Commission Doctor who examined Ali was Dr Alex Robbins.,after Ali had put on his act Dr Robbins took his BP and found it to be 200/100.Robbins was at a loss as to how this could have happened in a healthy athlete.Enter the great boxing writer Jimmy Cannon as old school as they come.Cannon posed the question to Dr Robbins."could it be that the kid is scared to death Doc?"Yes,yes said Dr Robbins he is scared to death and if his blood pressure is the same at fight time it is all off." Note the words AT FIGHT TIME
NO SECONDS AWAY FROM THE FIGHT BEING CALLED OFF!
Ali leaves the medical and returns to his rented house ,accompanied by Dr Ferdie Pacheco.Once in the house Pacheco takes Ali's blood pressure it registers 120/80 NORMAL Pacheco asks Ali ,"Why did you do that Ali? Why did you act so nutty up there in front of all those people?"
Ali replies."Because Liston thinks I am a nut.He is scared of no man ,but he is scared of a nut because he doesn't know what I am going to do."
Source .Fight Doctor by Ferdie Pacheco MD
To be honest this is rather embarrassing,any fight follower of my time knew this several decades ago.The fact that you were completely ignorant of the facts and then thought you would give me a lecture on it is totally bizarre! Christ fella I lived through those years, I've been following boxing for over 60 years! Any fight fan my age knows this story and the background and circumstances of it! Its old,very old news!


Ali put on a great act to convince Liston he was a nut, in doing so he temporarily raised his heart beat and BP.
This has been common knowledge for at least 5 decades and here you are triumphantly announcing it as though it it some new revelation!LOL!
Its actually hysterically funny!
Ali had a haematoma on the right side of his face from Joe's left hooks it was x rayed for a possible break ,none was found and he went home .end of.
Do you see this as some kind of points scoring,ie who was worse off physically? Because,if you do there is no argument ,Frazier was in the hospital for two weeks! I'll take pity on you ,and throw you a bone to gnaw on. Ali had badly bruised hip bones from the body shots they gave him much more discomfort than his swollen cheek.

- - U buttocks getting hematomaed from the whippings I been administering...priceless.

Doc told Ferdie Clay was gonna fail the physical if he didn't stop screaming, so Ferdie and Angie took him to a back room to explain the situation. Need I hire a nursing student to explain what screaming does to blood pressure and heart rate?

So Ali returns a few min later chastened and passes the physical, no prob. Physicals ain't interrupted by rest and recovery at home...duh!

Joe took blood pressure meds to pass his physicals much like Luis Ortiz of today, but not for the fight. He also used a slight of hand to pass the eye test to cover up he was legally blind in that eye. Ali made Joe out as a dumb, brutish, gorilla, but Joe was smarter and it showed as he the only one who dominated their fight by the end in spite of accidentally getting poked in his good eye by Mercante.

U seem rather childlike much like Ali. He liked majic tricks with kiddos. How about U?

[Ivich]

- - U buttocks getting hematomaed from the whippings I been administering...priceless.

Doc told Ferdie Clay was gonna fail the physical if he didn't stop screaming, so Ferdie and Angie took him to a back room to explain the situation. Need I hire a nursing student to explain what screaming does to blood pressure and heart rate?

So Ali returns a few min later chastened and passes the physical, no prob. Physicals ain't interrupted by rest and recovery at home...duh!

Joe took blood pressure meds to pass his physicals much like Luis Ortiz of today, but not for the fight. He also used a slight of hand to pass the eye test to cover up he was legally blind in that eye. Ali made Joe out as a dumb, brutish, gorilla, but Joe was smarter and it showed as he the only one who dominated their fight by the end in spite of accidentally getting poked in his good eye by Mercante.

U seem rather childlike much like Ali. He liked majic tricks with kiddos. How about U?

Listen NUMB NUTS Dr Robbins stated in front of the worlds press onTV that IF ALI's BP WAS THE SAME AT FIGHT TIME THERE WOULD BE NO FIGHT Thats your assertion that he was seconds away from calling the fight off blown completely out of the water. You are here just to stalk posters and invent arguments you're without doubt the dumbest guy I've encountered here so far. You know jack **** and dismiss primary sources because they contradict your agenda ,I've forgotten more about boxing than you have yet learned you muppet ,now go and try and annoy some body else you pathetic clown.

[QueensburyRules]

Listen NUMB NUTS Dr Robbins stated in front of the worlds press onTV that IF ALI's BP WAS THE SAME AT FIGHT TIME THERE WOULD BE NO FIGHT Thats your assertion that he was seconds away from calling the fight off blown completely out of the water. You are here just to stalk posters and invent arguments you're without doubt the dumbest guy I've encountered here so far. You know jack **** and dismiss primary sources because they contradict your agenda ,I've forgotten more about boxing than you have yet learned you muppet ,now go and try and annoy some body else you pathetic clown.

- - My, how U blood pressure spikes thee so?

If Ali couldn't pass the physical at the weighin, there is no fight to call off at FIGHT TIME.

U timeline dyslexic too?

[them_apples]

He wasn't comparing Rocky too Frazier though was he, just up and said Frazier is one armed so he loses.
He didn't stop many with his right hand because his left hook was more effective at that but do you know how many opponents he broke down with them rights to the body ?, all of them, not one opponent Frazier faced didn't eat a butt load of right hooks and uppercuts too the body (Except Big G of course), his straight right wasn't something too just shake off either.

Alex, go watch the Quarry fight (Or any for that matter, just the Quarry bout sticks out too me at the moment), don't just sit there waiting for the left hook and actually pay attention, come back tell me he is a 1 armed boxer.

he's used his right hand to set up his left. He threw uppercuts and hooks with it - but yeah he's planted for his left hook. He did throw many variations of it though, and at different timings. He threw a short crispy one at Quarry that looked like he gave him brain damage seriously. just hook his legs out from underneath him.

[Ivich]

he's used his right hand to set up his left. He threw uppercuts and hooks with it - but yeah he's planted for his left hook. He did throw many variations of it though, and at different timings. He threw a short crispy one at Quarry that looked like he gave him brain damage seriously. just hook his legs out from underneath him.

George Benton and Eddie Futch gave him a right hand but it was never a power punch and he never dropped anyone with it.That doesnt mean he was," a one handed fighter,"he wasn't, it just means his power was in his left.