Tonight, Juan Manuel Marquez solidified his ATG status.

[IronDanHamza]

A lot of people have been saying this and I have to disagree completely. He actually looked slower, more off balance and more bulky. He had a much better game plan and fought his fight because of the style.

Go watch the first couple of rounds against Mayweather and then the same thing against Pac. In the Mayweather fight he looks quicker and more balanced than he did against Pac.

I agree 100%

[bojangles1987]

A lot of people have been saying this and I have to disagree completely. He actually looked slower, more off balance and more bulky. He had a much better game plan and fought his fight because of the style.

Go watch the first couple of rounds against Mayweather and then the same thing against Pac. In the Mayweather fight he looks quicker and more balanced than he did against Pac.

I agree. Didn't understand it in the lead up to the fight, and certainly didn't understand it during the fight. He was no different than against Mayweather, the difference was purely in the style matchup.

[BigStereotype]

Anyway, my score was closer than most but I still had Marquez sneaking it. I thought the 2nd fight was a clearer, better win for Marquez. Nonetheless, I still thought he won it clearly, but once again closely.

The whole 'must beat champion' argument doesn't work in this fight. Marquez was the champion in their 2nd fight and he lost, while, to my mind anyway, winning clearly but closely. I don't run with the 'Marquez needs to beat the champion and he slowed down in the championship rounds' so he deserves to lose. He won the championship rounds in their 2nd fight and closed well. He still lost and was champion no more.

I thought Marquez won the 11th, lost the 12th so I split the championship rounds anyway.

However, although they all were close fights and hard to split and everyone can argue for either guy winning only one fighter came out of three fights without a single loss. To me that shows bias that has nothing to do with being the champion.

You don't need to beat the champion today. You need to beat the money. It's much harder to beat the money, as Marquez has found out.

I always thought that philosophy was moronic. Why do you need to win 12-0 to eek a draw? I think you should score a fight the way it's fought, not with any mystical "you need to beat a champion" nonsense.

[New England]

A lot of people have been saying this and I have to disagree completely. He actually looked slower, more off balance and more bulky. He had a much better game plan and fought his fight because of the style.

Go watch the first couple of rounds against Mayweather and then the same thing against Pac. In the Mayweather fight he looks quicker and more balanced than he did against Pac.

i do not agree.

looking off balance is going to come with having a guy who uses footspeed like pacquiao and tries to turn the corner. floyd basically fights off of flat feet/the balls of his feet with small steps. if he had marquez off balance it was because he was hitting him with clean counters, not making him miss with blinding footspeed.

fighting floyd mayweather isnt going to make a lack of speed show up as much as it will against pacquiao.

as fast as floyd is (and his reflexes are better than pacquiao's, which is what really matters and why his speed is more effective,) manny has faster hands and much faster feet

we can agree to disagree
i think marquez looked a lot better than he did at his last go at WW both in terms of his performance and physically (he carried much less loose skin


i'm not saying it was heredia, or that he's on ped's
i'm just saying i think he looked better in his second fight at WW, which, outside of his age, shouldnt be much of a stretch.

[joseph5620]

I agree. Didn't understand it in the lead up to the fight, and certainly didn't understand it during the fight. He was no different than against Mayweather, the difference was purely in the style matchup.

I agree. It's really just a sad attempt to discredit Mayweather's performance against Marquez. It doesn't even surprise me anymore when I see the comments on how the 2 years older Marquez was "better". I'm not buying it though.

[The Surgeon]

Im with New England as far as Marquez looking better in his second fight at "WW". He looked awful vs Floyd MAINLY because Floyd is just flat out better than Pacquaio and indeed Marquez. But also because he hadnt came up the right way, he looked big but soft and though i only watched JMM vs PBF once i remember him being slower than vs Pacquaio who u would assume would make him look slower as Pacquaio has those blazing combinations and quick angle changes with the foot work.

Either way Floyd SHOULD be looking good off of the back of this fight, even if u had Manny winning it was nip and tuck, where as Mayweather Dominated and with ease.

Whenever im passing on some boxing knowledge to some young'un 30-40 years from now i'l make damn sure they know Juan Manuel Marquez whooped Manny Pacquaio's ass! Forget what the record books say son!

[New England]

rewatched the fight on TV with nice definition

sound was up but only enough to get the atmosphere

i marked 3-4 very close rounds


i had marquez winning 8-4
even 9-3 isnt out of the question


if you gave manny the fight you were either more impressed than you should have been with his work (he didnt land many clean punches in any round,) or you were looking to give him rounds and gave him every close round



marquez beat manny pacquiao far more decisively in the last fight than either man had beaten the other in the first two fights

hell, it wasnt even very close on my cards.
you have to give manny every close round to even keep him in the fight.

[Toyman]

After rewatching all 3 fights

pacquiao easily won them all

115-110
115-112
116-112

if you watch all 3 consecutively, you'll notice jmm was never even close to beating pacquiao except for the 3rd one, but pac reeled off the 4 last rounds for a wide 4 point win.

[joseph5620]

After rewatching all 3 fights

pacquiao easily won them all

115-110
115-112
116-112

if you watch all 3 consecutively, you'll notice jmm was never even close to beating pacquiao except for the 3rd one, but pac reeled off the 4 last rounds for a wide 4 point win.

Absolutely ridiculous. Even if you scored all three for Pacquiao none of them were "easy" clear victories. Claiming Marquez " was never even close to beating Pacquiao" is beyond ridiculous.

[Johnwoo8686]

After rewatching all 3 fights

pacquiao easily won them all

115-110
115-112
116-112

if you watch all 3 consecutively, you'll notice jmm was never even close to beating pacquiao except for the 3rd one, but pac reeled off the 4 last rounds for a wide 4 point win.

This is what they call Manny vision, where fans of Pacquiao simply focus on what he is doing and not on what his opponent is doing. If Marquez hadn't been knocked down in the first two fights he would've beaten Pacquiao easily. The first fight was a draw to me, the second fight was a draw/one point victory for Pacquiao, and this fight was a two point victory for Marquez.