Camacho as a sfw

[billeau2]

Elements of greatness are one thing. But Queenie flat out claimed that Camacho at his best was invincible at 130. That he would have had Azumah Nelson spinning like a top.

Maybe, based on his speed and footwork and "natural fighting nuance" that would have happened. But maybe not.

Did Salvador Sanchez and Pernell Whitaker manage to do that to Nelson? And did Camacho ever do it at 130 to anyone close to the level of an Azumah?

At some point the hyperbole has to be backed up with solid evidence. Beyond just saying to look at the tape.

My point of view is simply that Camacho was extraordinary and I think he would beat Nelson. If he did "outclass him" it would imo look like Whitaker did to Chavez.

[billeau2]

His best win was Limon who was a pretty good fighter, but a bit past it. His best win imo was at 35 vs Ramirez he was really on that night and had Ramirez turning in circles, and even dropped the iron chin vet(also a very un PC interview that was a bit funny). No doubt though that his best ended pretty early due to dedication more then the often repeated Rosairo "ruining him" line, and he don't have a lot of good scalps. At his VERY best he COULD have beat Alexis just due to styles the great AA had slow feet and could be outboxed against a VERY good boxer. Nelson who I don't rate quite as high as AA, would of had a tougher style for Camacho imo, and its hard with Camacho's limited prime to pick him in that fight. With Camacho you have to kinda go by the "eye test" more because of his very short prime, but he was a very good boxer with underrated chin and even toughness. Will admit he was a VERY early fav of mine as a kid when he was at his best. About the only good point Queenie made was that he was a natural fighter, and was very relaxed in the ring which allowed him to fight better then expected and longer even when he was not in good shape.

Camacho was raised a generation removed from me as a kid, in my neighborhood. Benitez also...Both guys also had family in Puerto Rico. I can attest to the fighting...You had to fight in my hood! From grammer school on... Getting home from school was one big boxing match lol. We were the minority as white kids lol. When I grew up I thought my name was "Hey white boy." lol.

[john l]

Camacho was raised a generation removed from me as a kid, in my neighborhood. Benitez also...Both guys also had family in Puerto Rico. I can attest to the fighting...You had to fight in my hood! From grammer school on... Getting home from school was one big boxing match lol. We were the minority as white kids lol. When I grew up I thought my name was "Hey white boy." lol.

LMAO Yea I was the token white boy in my gym most of time. Were you a military brat?

[billeau2]

LMAO Yea I was the token white boy in my gym most of time. Were you a military brat?

No and history repeats itself because from East Harlem I became one of Riley Hawkin's few White students in Baltimore lol. My family was kind of idealistic, 60's and all... I consider myself lucky that I was raised that way, you probably felt that way about your situation as well. When I was training Martial Arts I was cared for in a way that is indescribable. My training brothers made sure, as the "runt" of the group that I got up to standards. This was done out of love, it taught me valuable lessons about people for sure.

In my second training group in Philly, there was a guy, a prison guard, Earl, who was tough as they come. he used to tell me when I left to go bacl to Baltimore, "You better be back I will find you!" and he took me under his wing. People like that made it easy to get over the rough spots and show up and get well learned.

Heres the thing: I found out later on in college that Earl suicided at home. All I could do is think to myself, that this wonderful individual, through s h i t that must have been killing him, from work, from his wife (apparently) was able to give to me some of his time and love to make sure I made it alright. Do I have to tell you it broke my heart. Once being in that situation I would defy anyone to try to be a racist. Impossible to do when realizing how human we all are.

[QueensburyRules]

My point of view is simply that Camacho was extraordinary and I think he would beat Nelson. If he did "outclass him" it would imo look like Whitaker did to Chavez.

- -Pea seldom "beat" anyone.

Frankie Randell "beat" him good, but clearly JC had arrived at his sell date in those fight. Had Pea clowned less and knuckled down more he have a clear win, a major weakness in his style his idolators ignore .

[ShoulderRoll]

Whitaker didn't clown much in the Chavez fight. That was a clear win for him, I don't care what the crooked judges said.

[billeau2]

- -Pea seldom "beat" anyone.

Frankie Randell "beat" him good, but clearly JC had arrived at his sell date in those fight. Had Pea clowned less and knuckled down more he have a clear win, a major weakness in his style his idolators ignore .

I think the world of the Sweet Pea...We will have to agree to disagree.

[john l]

No and history repeats itself because from East Harlem I became one of Riley Hawkin's few White students in Baltimore lol. My family was kind of idealistic, 60's and all... I consider myself lucky that I was raised that way, you probably felt that way about your situation as well. When I was training Martial Arts I was cared for in a way that is indescribable. My training brothers made sure, as the "runt" of the group that I got up to standards. This was done out of love, it taught me valuable lessons about people for sure.

In my second training group in Philly, there was a guy, a prison guard, Earl, who was tough as they come. he used to tell me when I left to go bacl to Baltimore, "You better be back I will find you!" and he took me under his wing. People like that made it easy to get over the rough spots and show up and get well learned.

Heres the thing: I found out later on in college that Earl suicided at home. All I could do is think to myself, that this wonderful individual, through s h i t that must have been killing him, from work, from his wife (apparently) was able to give to me some of his time and love to make sure I made it alright. Do I have to tell you it broke my heart. Once being in that situation I would defy anyone to try to be a racist. Impossible to do when realizing how human we all are.

Man that was a great post, and I'm sorry about your friend. Could not agree more with your sentiment. I was lucky too, I had two older brothers. One of which let me come back up to the cities and live with him when I was about 14 for a couple years so I could box. I had a few good coaches, but he was my REAL coach and learned more from him then anyone. Inside and out of the ring(and even my 1st bachelor party lol)

[john l]

I think the world of the Sweet Pea...We will have to agree to disagree.

Boy I'm right there with you. He is one of the two best to turn over since the class of 80 imo. His death this year bothered me more then I would have expected. He was a true master, and would have been AT LEAST competitive with anyone in history at 35 imo.

[john l]

Whitaker didn't clown much in the Chavez fight. That was a clear win for him, I don't care what the crooked judges said.

Agree and agree, and the Ramirez one was even worse. The worst dec I seen live in a pro fight.