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Is this heavyweight climate the worst in history?

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  • #11
    Originally posted by Greatest1942 View Post
    I will never have the "1937 to 1945" era that high on the worst list. IMO it was equal to some eras you listed below.

    Looking at it I think I moved it and actually meant to move 85 to 92. I'll edit it.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by SCtrojansbaby View Post
      I'll take Haye Adamek Chambers Povetkin and Dimetrenko over Weatherspoon, Dokes and freaking Gerrie Coetzee every day of the week.

      Of course 2 great fighters(Wlad and Vitali) > 1 great fighter(Holmes)
      Why do you post in the history section if your mind is so closed to the past???

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      • #13
        the heavyweight division has often gone through shaky times.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by SCtrojansbaby View Post
          I'll take Haye Adamek Chambers Povetkin and Dimetrenko over Weatherspoon, Dokes and freaking Gerrie Coetzee every day of the week.

          Of course 2 great fighters(Wlad and Vitali) > 1 great fighter(Holmes)
          This is humor right?

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          • #15
            This is the worst and weakest era!

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            • #16
              Originally posted by KO'er View Post
              There has been no good American heavyweights, only the 2 Klitschko brothers. David Haye came along in 2010 but he was all.

              We all know who the Klitschko's are going to face next and we all know they are going to beat them, proceeding cautiously, using the jab and more than likely getting a unspectacular late stoppage. People say the early 80's was bad, which it was, but I don't think it was as bad as this age.

              Ali was there until 1978, Norton until 1980, Holmes until 1985. But though when Holmes winning all the time was similar to the Klitschko's, from 1978-1985 (when Holmes reigned) was only 7 years. Tyson hit the scene then. We waited 8 years for Wladimir Klitschko VS David Haye, which was the biggest Heavyweight fight by far since Lewis-Klitschko. I don't think we are going to get another Tyson coming anytime soon, cleaning out the division.

              IMO this is the worst age in history for heavyweight boxing. What do you guys think?
              It must be close to the worst, but take Tyson out and 1983 to 89 really stank.... god it was putrid seeing the trash they gave Mike to fight.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by New England View Post
                a terrific point that cannot be overstated

                who is to say the klitschko brothers (were they not brothers, of course) wouldnt have some terrific fights against eachother.


                i will say this, the top ten is weak and the journeymen and fringe contenders are all out of shape, which is a relatively new phenomenon



                and also i think we can all agree that american talented big men don't box anymore, and that's not likely to change any time soon

                sure, we might get lucky and have a len bias type talent born next to a boxing gym, but he's likely to play basketball or football or even hockey and baseball and get recruited to play high level collegiately or even get drafted to a pro team as a youth
                This is what it all boils down to for me. It's not the top guy, or guys. Those two are great fighters who would be up there in any era. But, a division is not made good, great or even close to it by two fighters alone. Especially if those two fighters don't/can't fight each other for whatever reason. I know they are brothers, but that still means that the two best fighters of the last six/seven years haven't and won't ever fight each other.

                Nonetheless, it comes down to the rest of the field for me. What makes an era great is not the champion or champions, but the top ten and other fringe contenders. This top ten is, in my opinion, the worst I have ever seen maybe from any division in any era. The two top fighters are consistently in great shape, can fight a full championship fight without gassing out completely and are clearly elite world class athletes. The same absolutely cannot be said for the people that pass themselves off as professional fighters of world class.

                I think the previous eras that some are saying equals this one in it's terrible state are overlooking the general talent of the rest of the field in comparison. I'm certainly not saying they are great eras by any means, but this isn't actually so bad at all: There were a lot of highly talented fighters and although some were inconsistent, they were overall in shape, came to fight, highly skilled and when at their best were able to take on anyone and give a great, hard fight.
                1985
                Michael Spinks, Champion
                Pinklon Thomas
                Larry Holmes
                Tim Witherspoon
                Tony Tubbs
                Greg Page
                Gerrie Coetzee
                Trevor Berbick
                Carl Williams
                Mike Weaver
                Michael Dokes

                A few years earlier when Holmes was still king.
                Larry Holmes, Champion
                Gerrie Coetzee
                Greg Page
                Michael Dokes
                Pinklon Thomas
                Tim Witherspoon
                Mike Weaver
                David Bey
                John Tate
                Trevor Berbick
                Frank Bruno

                Years later when Tyson was the man.
                Title Vacant
                Mike Tyson
                Evander Holyfield
                Michael Dokes
                Francesco Damiani
                Tim Witherspoon
                Orlin Norris
                James (Buster) Douglas
                Carl Williams
                Razor Ruddock
                Gary Mason

                When Lewis was at his best and Holyfield was still great.
                Title Vacant
                Evander Holyfield
                Lennox Lewis
                Michael Grant
                Michael Moorer
                Shannon Briggs
                Chris Byrd
                Ike Ibeabuchi
                David Tua
                Andrew Golota
                Hasim Rahman

                A few years earlier when Bowe was daddy of the division. That's a solid top ten.
                Rid**** Bowe
                Lennox Lewis
                Mike Tyson
                Michael Moorer
                Evander Holyfield
                Bruce Seldon
                Frank Bruno
                George Foreman
                Alexander Zolkin
                Henry Akinwande

                I just struggle to see a comparison to this.
                Current rankings:
                Wladimir Klitschko
                Vitali Klitschko
                Alexander Povetkin
                Tomasz Adamek
                David Haye (retired?)
                Eddie Chambers
                Robert Helenius
                Alexander Dimitrenko
                Dennis Boytsov
                Chris Arreola

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                • #18
                  A lot of the guys that aren't well remembered by today's boxing and heavyweight division fans, such as Greg Page, Tim Witherspoon, Dokes etc. will be thought of as nothing and maybe on the level of an Eddie Chambers, Chris Arreola, Dimitrenko or something like that.

                  However, each and every one of those above were incredibly talented fighters. I don't believe they reached their potential, possibly because of some exceptional champions at the very top, and maybe even underachieved but overall they were, and would have been, a handful for anyone at the time.

                  Someone like Page or Dokes makes each and every prospect today look comparatively unskilled, untalented and not much of a prospect at all.
                  A 15 fight young up and coming prospect in Greg Page:


                  What was considered the future great of the heavyweight division a number of years back now: Undefeated at about 20-0 here.


                  Two of the lesser known champs of that era by many people today. Mike Weaver and Pinklon Thomas.


                  One of the best champs of the previous eras against one of the top ten contenders (and brief champs) of that 80's era. Holyfield and Michael Dokes.


                  When I look at the general skill, will, and all around ability, it all seems closer to me. The majority of the top ten are all very, very good fighters. There were the standouts of course, but often there rest of the competition was extremely close, hard fought and hard won and full of great talent and those same fighters were all good enough to challenge and really test the top guys. It just doesn't seem that way anymore. A lot of the top ten, apart from the two stand out fighters, just can't fight a full fight well, at a good pace, with skill.
                  Last edited by BennyST; 10-11-2011, 09:43 PM.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by TBear View Post
                    This is humor right?
                    No Terrible Tim Weatherspoon and Gerrie Coetzee are worse then any of todays contenders

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by SCtrojansbaby View Post
                      No Terrible Tim Weatherspoon and Gerrie Coetzee are worse then any of todays contenders
                      You have no idea what you are talking about. Spoon beats all the current contenders. Coetzee was as good as any of them too.

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