Roy Jones Jr arguable the best resume in modern boxing

[JAB5239]

Rare instances where the other fighter clearly won I.e Johnson over Pastrano, Whitaker over Ramierz and Chavez and I guess Oscar over Tito.

These can be included in a resume.

However, clear loss's that you included for Oscar, obviously should not count on a resume. Why would they?

His only clear losses are to Pac, Hopkins and the first Mosley fight which was competitive.Many would argue he won the second fight with Shane. Anyway I look at it though I see his resume being comparable to Jones, and outside of the James Toney fight I think it can be looked at as stronger. Jmo.

[JAB5239]

This is why you can't rank fighters you haven't seen.

This has nothing to do with ranking fighters you haven't seen. Unless you have proof that countless newspaper reports, magazine articles, witness statements and fighter testimonial are all lies, than the greatness of a fighter can be substantiated through these things as well as footage of his opponents and knowing the history and timeline of his fights. Because you do not understand any of this and won't bother putting the time in to learn about it you choose to dismiss it. No offense, but that's a lazy mans way out.

[SCtrojansbaby]

This has nothing to do with ranking fighters you haven't seen. Unless you have proof that countless newspaper reports, magazine articles, witness statements and fighter testimonial are all lies, than the greatness of a fighter can be substantiated through these things as well as footage of his opponents and knowing the history and timeline of his fights. Because you do not understand any of this and won't bother putting the time in to learn about it you choose to dismiss it. No offense, but that's a lazy mans way out.

All those things are opinions if you hadn't seen Pacquiaos fights you would think he is without a doubt the greatest of all time because of how great all the newspaper reports are. But you don't think Pacquiao is without a doubt the greatest of all time because you have probable seen him fight 20x and therefore have your own opinion

[JAB5239]

All those things are opinions if you hadn't seen Pacquiaos fights you would think he is without a doubt the greatest of all time because of how great all the newspaper reports are. But you don't think Pacquiao is without a doubt the greatest of all time because you have probable seen him fight 20x and therefore have your own opinion

EVERYTHING is opinion. But opinions carry more weight when the people who actually fought whatever fighter and watched him countless times, as well as his peers in the sport, and they ALL agree. I've seen many of Harry Grebs opponents fight, I know the era and about his opposition and their places in history. It doesn't take a genius to figure out this guy was an incredible fighter to have beaten so many other great fighters who we CAN see. I may be wrong, but I believe that you want to think of his style as not aesthetically so you can say he wouldn't be able to fight today. Even if that were true he still not only beat, but dominated guys who fought with modern styles, so its irrelevant.

Now if someone were trying to proclaim an unheard of, undefeated fighter from a long gone era with no testimonial, no film and no knowledge of his opponents about his greatness than I'd agree with you that he couldn't be properly judged. This is not the case with the fighters I rate with little or no film.

[SCtrojansbaby]

EVERYTHING is opinion. But opinions carry more weight when the people who actually fought whatever fighter and watched him countless times, as well as his peers in the sport, and they ALL agree. I've seen many of Harry Grebs opponents fight, I know the era and about his opposition and their places in history. It doesn't take a genius to figure out this guy was an incredible fighter to have beaten so many other great fighters who we CAN see. I may be wrong, but I believe that you want to think of his style as not aesthetically so you can say he wouldn't be able to fight today. Even if that were true he still not only beat, but dominated guys who fought with modern styles, so its irrelevant.

Now if someone were trying to proclaim an unheard of, undefeated fighter from a long gone era with no testimonial, no film and no knowledge of his opponents about his greatness than I'd agree with you that he couldn't be properly judged. This is not the case with the fighters I rate with little or no film.

Seeing one or two fights of a couple of his opponents in terrible quality is simply a horrible way to rate someone.

[JAB5239]

Seeing one or two fights of a couple of his opponents in terrible quality is simply a horrible way to rate someone.

Who said anything about 1 or 2 fights for only a couple of his opponents? Just a few weeks ago I had to post video for you that you didn't even know existed. It simply baffles me as to why you want to cling to your illusions and remain so close minded about history.

[McGoorty]

Who said anything about 1 or 2 fights for only a couple of his opponents? Just a few weeks ago I had to post video for you that you didn't even know existed. It simply baffles me as to why you want to cling to your illusions and remain so close minded about history.

You can't expect anymore from him Jab,,,,,, Ol Pepe Le Pew,... he never ceases to amaze me........... Now Pepe is stinking up his own thread,...................... lol.

[SCtrojansbaby]

Who said anything about 1 or 2 fights for only a couple of his opponents? Just a few weeks ago I had to post video for you that you didn't even know existed. It simply baffles me as to why you want to cling to your illusions and remain so close minded about history.

Ok so how many opponents are there full fights of and how many fights are there for each opponent. Please provide links

[McGoorty]

Ok so how many opponents are there full fights of and how many fights are there for each opponent. Please provide links

There are dozens of old films, here in the History forum,.... I ought to know,, I put my fair share on various threads, mine and others. It ain't all, there's more on youtube and even more that some greedy buggers pulled off there, that's why I download them the moment I see the. I don't know if you think the 40's and 50's are old-time or modern but there are a (**7# load of them. especially Sugar Ray Robinson, there's 6 or 7 of his WW bouts though usually about 6 or seven rounds worth. If you want film proof of these very tough guy's abilities, say Ike Williams V Beau Jack, Basilio V Robinson I & II ( full fights ) and the incredible two fights between Basilio and Tony De Marco (on either one of my threads or the old timers video. I put a shorter one with some of the fight, I have on DVD... Basilio V De Marco II, one of my top 5 all-time fights, there's two of the toughest ever fighters and both are ****ers, with DeMarco a top contender for "the hardest punching WW of all time, Lucky for Basilio, he's a contender for best ever chin...........If you never see another fight, see Basilio/De Marco II...... it was WW3.

[Welsh Jon]

Lennox Lewis is widely considered to be a top 10 ATG heavyweight by most people. How many fighters in the last decade or two are top 10 ATG in their own weight class?

In the last 20 years:

Evander Holyfield at heavyweight
Joe Calzaghe at Super-Middleweight
Bernard Hopkins (argueably) at middleweight
Winky Wright at light-middlweight
J.C.C at light-welterweight
Kostya Tszyu at light-welterweight
Pernell Whitaker at lightweight
Floyd Mayweather at Junior-lightweight
Azumah Nelson at Super-featherweight
Manny Pacquaiao at Super-featherweight
Ivan Calderon at Strawweight

So quite a few off the top of my head!