Tyson's Talents Are Way Overrated

[The Noose]

good points, although i would argue that those mean that either tyson CHOSE to not use his speed and eventually lost it, or he just didnt have it anymore. I would say that before prison he began to lose his style, though after prison he had to weight lift and for other reasons too lost his speed.

I think that the reason he was beaten by Douglas wasnt his lack of speed, it was his lazy unfocused approach. Rooney wasnt there to keep him focused or tell him to try different things (body shots, jabs etc).
I dont think much cghanged after the Douglas fight except he landed big shots early or against Ruddock he fought back well, unlike in the Douglas fight.

IMO it wasnt that he chose not to use his speed, but his speed was only effective wen he threw combinations or countered. Which he stopped doing.

I just think the biggest factor in his rapid decline was Rooney not being in his corner. Against Thomas Tyson got lazy and let Thomas into the fight. Rooney had to 'wake' him up, and only then did Tyson explode in the 6th to KO Thomas.

[Abe Attell]

Without Rooney, Tyson declined fast...
Rooney used to always yell instructions to Tyson as he was fighting, that was key to Tyson winning as well...I don't want to take anything away from Tyson since he was the one with the ability and talent, but sometimes if you have a great trainer that works for you, it could make all the difference in making a fight easier.

A great quote from the SportsCentury was "Tyson was as good as the program you put in him" - not sure who said it so I will have to go back and check when I get time.


Just check out Rooney yelling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jp0-7FuiJk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUtAMOzvKZA

I think the Tucker fight is a good example of Mike having an "off" day and Rooney kicking him in the ass to keep him moving...all fighters/athletes have off days, on this day it happened to Mike, but Mike still won...I think if it weren't for Rooney thought, Mike would of had a lot more trouble...I also like the way Mike was back then with Rooney: after the fight Tyson looked disappointed and said so to Larry Merchent...he was never really satisfied with his performances back then because Rooney, who learned from Cus, taught this way, "you can always do better"...When Mike had that attitude around him, he was incredible, but when he got that Don King "I am the best, nobody is better" bull**** in his mind, he declined.

[BmoreBrawler]

WTF kind of **** is that...Well without Power what would Foreman be...without Speed what would Carl Lewis be?...without intelligence what would Einstein be...without agility what would Willie Pepe be...get my point?

You can't cancel out a "natural" ability like that

Um, tysons leg speed was obviously not a natural ability. why? because he lost it.

[BmoreBrawler]

If Tyson used the exact "peek-a-boo" style that Floyd and Jose used he wouldn't have used his legs like he did, he would just plot...Tyson used the peek-a-boo better than they did because he improved it based on his own natural abilities, one being his abilty to move quickly with his feet to make up the difference.

yep. and once he lost that speed his whole style went to crap.

And as far as his loss to douglass, the guy just didnt train at all, plus like yall said trashing rooney was a HUGE mistake.

[Verstyle]

Um, tysons leg speed was obviously not a natural ability. why? because he lost it.

honestly he jus never used it again. i've never seen him try to use it again after his prime

[Southpaw Stinger]

honestly he jus never used it again. i've never seen him try to use it again after his prime

Maybe he didn't have the stamina or the fleet footedness to use it again?

[BKM-]

Maybe he didn't have the stamina or the fleet footedness to use it again?

I think he didnt have the effort for it, and his style changed a lot.

[Madcow]

No doubt that Tyson was overrated. He was a physical phenom who came along at a weak point in heavyweight history. The sad truth is that Tyson lost to the first person who fought back (Buster Douglas) and proceeded to lose to everyone with a heart and a back bone after that.

Ali runs rings around Tyson and makes him quit on his stool.

Marciano and Louis out-gut Tyson and K.O. him.

Etc, etc, etc....

Tyson probably doesn't even belong on a top 10 all-time heavyweight list.

[Abe Attell]

No doubt that Tyson was overrated. He was a physical phenom who came along at a weak point in heavyweight history. The sad truth is that Tyson lost to the first person who fought back (Buster Douglas) and proceeded to lose to everyone with a heart and a back bone after that.

Ali runs rings around Tyson and makes him quit on his stool.

Marciano and Louis out-gut Tyson and K.O. him.

Etc, etc, etc....

Tyson probably doesn't even belong on a top 10 all-time heavyweight list.

WOW great post

So by your logic, Mike went 37 straight fights without a fighter fighting back I can't believe people wouldn't be pissed that the other guy didn't throw any punches.

Tyson was probably more likely to "lay down" without guidance, true, but with strong people around him, Tyson did well.
That's why I liked that quote from Sports-Century on Tyson,
"Mike Tyson is only as good as the program you put into him".

Even post Rooney, and after he got his ass kicked by Douglas, Mike did seem like he at least tried to regain his stature, though not getting back with Rooney would forever keep his skills at a low point. You don't think fighter's were gunning for him after his defeat with Douglas? how did he still manage to win?


When Mike was with Rooney, how many losses did he have?

If you can't notice the difference between Mike with Rooney and Mike without Rooney, then it shows that you can't be objective.


this is a good interview

http://tysontalk.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=532

Oh, Marciano also came at a time when the division was "Weak", the fighters he faced, Charles, Moore, Walcott, it wasn't like they were undefeated or haven't been knocked out before...I also wouldn't call these guys "Heavyweights"

[The Noose]

True.

To say "Tyson gets beat by anyone who fights back or stands up to him" is total bull****.

Tillis fought well against Tyson, as did Tucker. The young hungry Tyson kept on the pressure and broke them down. He didnt just rely on a big punch, but used his jab and outworked them.

The same with Biggs. Who tried to move and box but Tyson's pressure soon tired him out.

Also, after the Douglas fight, Ruddock truly believed he could beat Tyson, and Tyson fought back well both times.

After prison he fought nobodies, and just look at the way Holyfied was able to push Tyson back so easily. He had game plan, no technique, and no real fight in him anymore.