Tyson's Talents Are Way Overrated

[Madcow]

...I'm talking about a legit fighter with a legit chance who wasn't pissing in his pants by the Mike Tyson "legend."- and Don't even begin to tell me that at leat 95% of his early opponents weren't buying into the Tyson myth and ready to be eaten alive by the opening bell- or using their experience to just stay alive to see the end of the fight. Hell, even a quality guy like Spinks was ready to take a seat ASAP and Damn Bruce Seldon was KO'd buy a punch to the 'fro. Hype lasts a long time and even brainwashes some intelligent people into thinking that a good fighter was a great one.

Tyson was a fun fighter to watch, but he was like the charcters from the Wizard of Oz- No Heart, No Brain and No Courage. And when his physical gifts were drying up and there was no one to whisper advice in his ear, he was brought down to his proper level. A great fighter is characterized by all aspects of his career- early in his prime as well as later on when he's a bit slower. Look at Ali as an example of greatness. 5 years, no matter how dominant, do not make a great career.

Still, his physical gifts place him maybe in the top 20.

[Abe Attell]

Ask yourself, why were they scared?

How are "legends" built?

Mike’s talent was what made them scared.

Lets not forget that having "Fear" is normal, and it is those that are able to conquer there fear(s) that allow them to have a chance at succeeding.

"A character from the Wizard of Oz"

???...If Mike had no heart, courage, brain, etc. how the hell did he win 37 straight fights, including becoming the youngest Heavyweight Champion in history?


No heart? why try to fight on in the Douglas fight after getting your ass kicked in round after round...when he was knocked down, why get up?

In the Bruno fight, he was staggered, yet he fought back...the same was true in the Ruddock fight...in the Holyfield fight he was "out on his feet" at the end of the 10th, but came out the next round.

"5 years doesn't make a great career"

Sandy Koufax

[The Noose]

...I'm talking about a legit fighter with a legit chance who wasn't pissing in his pants by the Mike Tyson "legend."- and Don't even begin to tell me that at leat 95% of his early opponents weren't buying into the Tyson myth and ready to be eaten alive by the opening bell- or using their experience to just stay alive to see the end of the fight. Hell, even a quality guy like Spinks was ready to take a seat ASAP and Damn Bruce Seldon was KO'd buy a punch to the 'fro. Hype lasts a long time and even brainwashes some intelligent people into thinking that a good fighter was a great one.

Tyson was a fun fighter to watch, but he was like the charcters from the Wizard of Oz- No Heart, No Brain and No Courage. And when his physical gifts were drying up and there was no one to whisper advice in his ear, he was brought down to his proper level. A great fighter is characterized by all aspects of his career- early in his prime as well as later on when he's a bit slower. Look at Ali as an example of greatness. 5 years, no matter how dominant, do not make a great career.

Still, his physical gifts place him maybe in the top 20.

Buster Douglas was a legit fighter?
He was a 40-1 underdog.
As for his early opponents buying into a myth...there was no myth early on. He built a reputation due to his 19 W 19 KO record. They were KO'd. No excuses.

No one believed Tyson was a great fighter because of the Seldon fight. It wasnt Tysons fault that Seldon pissed himself and pussied out.

Your quote..."The sad truth is that Tyson lost to the first person who fought back (Buster Douglas) and proceeded to lose to everyone with a heart and a back bone after that." Like i said, he fought back well against Ruddock, and after prison was shot.

But ur rite.

A great fighter needs to be great for more than a few years.
BUT at his best he was great, he just never proved it against a worthy opponent.

[Abe Attell]

He burned out mentally, but it is understandable...it wasn't from fighting inside the ring either, it was the **** he had to deal with outside.

It was his fault for getting rid of Rooney


I stated before as an "idea", IF YOU WERE IN YOUR EARLY 20'S, CHAMPION OF THE WORLD, AND YOU DON'T WANT TO FIGHT ANYMORE, HOW DO YOU GET OUT?

Tyson's flaws may have been mental, but it does take mental strength to step into the ring and fight

[The Noose]

As good as Tyson was, ive never known a fighter so dependent on his corner.

I think alot of people get confused between post-prison Tyson, and 1980's Tyson.
Its not just hype, or wishful thinking. In the last week i got his whole career. Every fight, from beginning to end. All full fights.
And i forgot how good he was.

Its easy to see it now, the change in him as he got older. But he really was that good wen he was young IMO.

[Abe Attell]

true...Tyson seemed very reliant on his corner...I think a lot had to do with the way he was raised and having not been able to have those key years where your "Father" is supposed to teach you how to be a "Man"...Tyson was still a work in progress when D'Amato died.

A good quote from D'amato goes something like this
"I am not successful when my fighter becomes a Champion, but it is when my fighter becomes a Champion, and is able to stand on his own two feet without my help...it is when my fighter doesn't need me anymore, that I am successful"

Just look at the two examples, Floyd Patterson and Joes Torres, both street kids that went and learned from D'amato...they were D'amato's finished products, Tyson was not finished.


In the military it is the same thing: the drill instructor is there to break you down, then rebuild you. It is his job to make sure you can stand on your own to feet without his help when there is a war.

A "Father" is supposed to do the same thing

[The Noose]

Yea, but alot of fighters come from the street and didnt have somone like Cus to be a mentor.
I think Tyson was very lucky.

Its strange. Tyson at times acts like a moron and talks ****, he's like a kid. Then at othet times he says things which are more intelligent and insightful than any other sportsman athlete i can think of.

Anyway.
Getting bacjk to the topic.
Tysons talenst arent overrated. But maybe his place as a great fighter is.

[Abe Attell]

When talking about "All time great" status, he was more of a "could have been" instead of a "Was" when looking at his entire career


In some way it is unfair when you look at others that are considered "all time greats", but I guess that is how it works by the majority of views

[BmoreBrawler]

Most of Tyson's highly rated status coming from the public is due to the WAY he beat his opponents and what he was doing in the ring. It it hard to concieve that a Prime-tyson bum-rush could be stopped by any boxer in history, really. Maybe a slugger like a modern-era Marciano could take the punishment and fight back, but anyone who goes into defensive mode had better forget it.

[The Noose]

Most of Tyson's highly rated status coming from the public is due to the WAY he beat his opponents and what he was doing in the ring. It it hard to concieve that a Prime-tyson bum-rush could be stopped by any boxer in history, really. Maybe a slugger like a modern-era Marciano could take the punishment and fight back, but anyone who goes into defensive mode had better forget it.

I think Louis would have nailed him.