Am Having My Douts With Lennox Lewis's Greatness...

[IronDanHamza]

Rubbish. Cliff Rold ranks him #9. Monte D. Cox also ranks him #9. The International Boxing Research Organisation (whose rankings are a concensus of roughly 30 of the most respected boxing historians in the world) ranks him #12, which is only just outside the top 10.

Those rankings are absolutely reasonable in my book.

I don't consider him a Top 10 HW IMO but #9 is absolutely reasonable.

I respect the IBRO's list's.

[CarlosG815]

You're refusing to acknowledge my "what if" point about Tyson, so I'll just dismiss that as unanswered. Unlike Lewis, Tyson was glad when the Holyfield fight was over. He had taken a lot of punishment and was getting pounded. Tyson admitted that he didn't remember the second half of that fight, which clearly indicates a concussion. Never heard that Lewis had a concussion from that single right he caught. So in other words, no comparison. The ref was in the tank for Don King, McCall's promoter.

And how many times was Lewis "demolished so quickly"? A 5th round KO isn't considered to be an early KO. So where are all these "multiple fights" Carlos?

How am I dismissing the 'what if?' Are you trying to stretch as if I have not answered? I have stated that if it were Tyson, the fight would be stopped just the same, as it was against Holyfield, even though Tyson was not wobbled and stumbling behind held up by the ref.

Why are you acting as if I am dodging your question? I thought I answered it the first time. If what I have said above is not clear let me know and I will try to word it another way. I do think that if it were Tyson the fight would be stopped and rightfully so.

He was demolished and glossy eyed in just 2 rounds by McCall, and again almost as bad in the 5th round against Rahman. I consider the 5th round fairly early in a fight.

Anything more than 1 is multiple. Scott you can twist it anyway that you want because of your love for Lennox Lewis but facts are facts - it has happened to nobody else and in such devastating 1 punch fashion as it has to Lennox Lewis. He was knocked back in time both times and was not fit to continue. Both fights were early on, just accept it. They were legit knockouts and Lennox could was not fit to continue.

[JAB5239]

How am I dismissing the 'what if?' Are you trying to stretch as if I have not answered? I have stated that if it were Tyson, the fight would be stopped just the same, as it was against Holyfield, even though Tyson was not wobbled and stumbling behind held up by the ref.

Why are you acting as if I am dodging your question? I thought I answered it the first time. If what I have said above is not clear let me know and I will try to word it another way. I do think that if it were Tyson the fight would be stopped and rightfully so.

He was demolished and glossy eyed in just 2 rounds by McCall, and again almost as bad in the 5th round against Rahman. I consider the 5th round fairly early in a fight.

Anything more than 1 is multiple. Scott you can twist it anyway that you want because of your love for Lennox Lewis but facts are facts - it has happened to nobody else and in such devastating 1 punch fashion as it has to Lennox Lewis. He was knocked back in time both times and was not fit to continue. Both fights were early on, just accept it. They were legit knockouts and Lennox could was not fit to continue.

You put so much emphasis on these 2 losses but give no credit for beating every man he ever faced. Why is that?

[CarlosG815]

You put so much emphasis on these 2 losses but give no credit for beating every man he ever faced. Why is that?

Because that doesn't say a lot when everybody you face is at the tail end of their career; far from prime and nowhere near their top condition.

You want me to give him credit for beating a washed up McCall or Rahman who should have never won the title in the first place? Or how about credit for obese Tua who fought 25 pounds over his prime weight, or Mike Tyson who was shot to pieces and was doped up on drugs?

[JAB5239]

Because that doesn't say a lot when everybody you face is at the tail end of their career; far from prime and nowhere near their top condition.

You want me to give him credit for beating a washed up McCall or Rahman who should have never won the title in the first place? Or how about credit for obese Tua who fought 25 pounds over his prime weight, or Mike Tyson who was shot to pieces and was doped up on drugs?

Thank you, this is EXACTLY what I mean by double standards. This can be done with almost any fighters resume. In fact I just pointed out many of these same things in the Dempsey thread and you chose to ignore it.

How do we forgive Dempsey for twice losing with one win and a draw against Willie Meehan? This is a guy who fought at flyweight to start his career and was famous for being to lazy to do road work or seriously train.

How about his draw with John Lester Johnson...a guy who never beat a top fighter and finished his career a whopping 35-16-1?

How are these fights any better than LL's 2 losses to guys who may not have been great, but were at least seen as contenders with power?

And please, don't even make me go back into Dempsey's dismal title reign.

[Scott9945]

How am I dismissing the 'what if?' Are you trying to stretch as if I have not answered? I have stated that if it were Tyson, the fight would be stopped just the same, as it was against Holyfield, even though Tyson was not wobbled and stumbling behind held up by the ref.

Why are you acting as if I am dodging your question? I thought I answered it the first time. If what I have said above is not clear let me know and I will try to word it another way. I do think that if it were Tyson the fight would be stopped and rightfully so.

He was demolished and glossy eyed in just 2 rounds by McCall, and again almost as bad in the 5th round against Rahman. I consider the 5th round fairly early in a fight.

Anything more than 1 is multiple. Scott you can twist it anyway that you want because of your love for Lennox Lewis but facts are facts - it has happened to nobody else and in such devastating 1 punch fashion as it has to Lennox Lewis. He was knocked back in time both times and was not fit to continue. Both fights were early on, just accept it. They were legit knockouts and Lennox could was not fit to continue.

No, you said before that you couldn't even imagine Tyson being hurt like that, and if he got hit with a punch like that he would walk through it and score a KO (BTW, you really shouldn't talk about other people loving a fighter). I'm convinced if it were Tyson being the victim of a quick stoppage you'd have been outraged.

The two losses on Lewis' record are not the same. One was a 10 count KO, the other was a controversial stoppage very early in the fight with the fighting up and wanting to continue. Pretending that they were the same thing is transparent fiction.

[RubenSonny]

I had him in my top 10 awhile back but I think he'd be around 11-13 if I was forced to make a list now, when reflecting on it, the lack of a career defining win makes it difficult to rank him in the 10. Had he fought and beat Bowe that would've been it, having said that, I think Bowe would've smashed him.

[JAB5239]

I had him in my top 10 awhile back but I think he'd be around 11-13 if I was forced to make a list now, when reflecting on it, the lack of a career defining win makes it difficult to rank him in the 10. Had he fought and beat Bowe that would've been it, having said that, I think Bowe would've smashed him.

I don't know, blowing out Golota who had twice destroyed Bowe and two wins (yeah I know one was a draw) over a near prime Holyfield seems pretty defining to me. Just my opinion of course.

[Barn]

I had him in my top 10 awhile back but I think he'd be around 11-13 if I was forced to make a list now, when reflecting on it, the lack of a career defining win makes it difficult to rank him in the 10. Had he fought and beat Bowe that would've been it, having said that, I think Bowe would've smashed him.

Why did Bowe not fight him then?

Joking of course we know what path this thread is going to take.

[bklynboy]

Duran had some very bad losses resulted, but most rank him top 10 P4P and #1 Lightweight of all time. So why do people criticise Lewis so much for his off nights?

Because Duran was older, past his prime, and out of his weight class when he had those off nights. For his health he should have retired after Hagler and Hearns but continued to fight another 10 years until his mid 40s.