Am Having My Douts With Lennox Lewis's Greatness...

[CarlosG815]

Lmao says the guy who's only reasoning for Dempsey GOAT is "these guys said so!"

"these guys" are knowledgeable boxing historians, sports writers, other fighters who saw him fight, etc... Not a bunch of guys on a boxing forum.

[Scott9945]

So because Lennox was the champion he deserved to continue although he was not fit to? Because McCall was the challenger for the belt, he is not entitled to his knockout?

It was a knockout Scott, and a legit one at that. We can not look at the situation and base our actions on that. The ref has to be objective in his making of calls, otherwise he would be inconsistent. He was not fit to continue, and as we saw with Chavez Taylor - it doesn't matter who's fighting, what round, how hard a battle was fought, or how much time is on the clock - if a fighter can not continue, he is not allowed to continue. Lennox was not able to continue.

And if it were Tyson, who knows what would have happened? He was never wobbled and dropped like that in a fight. Tyson would have walked through that shot and probably landed a knockout counter left hook.

Chavez-Taylor was an even worse call, so maybe we just see these things differently. I do believe that a referee should be subjective and base his actions on a situation. You just don't stop a heavyweight championship fight as quickly as you would for an 18 y/o who gets hurt in a prelim match. And you certainly don't stop a title fight when there is two seconds left and the champion isn't even getting hit.

Once again, when else was a heavyweight title taken from a champion that quickly? And since you didn't answer, there would have been a RIOT if Tyson were ever stopped like that.

[joe strong]

By now everyone should no that this isn't a troll thread or anything like that. I like to debate about the history of boxing and boxers. So anyway.....

I was recetnly browsing through the record of Lennon Lewis. No dout Lewis deserves his place in history as a HW. But it got me thinking and douting his greatness. Were I often see him in top 10 HW lists and even hear some the best ever.

But I have my douts with his greatness. Here's why......

-He twice lost his title to men via KO to men who should of never had the belt. McCall was tough and durable but was always dealt when stpped up. Rahman was very ordinary and never really done pre or post Lewis fights. Yet they both managed to brutally KO Lewis in his prime's. I find them losses terrible.

-He had a terrible struggle with Ray Mercer and only managed to win on a Majority decision, and alot actually thought Mercer WON it. Mercer was never really that great as a pro, an old Holmes, and Holyfield dealt with him way better than Lewis did.

-Although he did get robbed, I always thought he should of dominated an ageing Holyfield even better. The second time alot even thought Holyfield had done enough for a draw. Not impressive. Imagine that would of been a 91/92 Evander.

-I don't give him really no credit for his win over Tyson, I feel Tyson just fighting for a paycheck at that point. Some even say thats his best win, which says something to me.

-Although it may not have been his fault, I would of like to see him fight the best of his era in there prime etc Tyson, Holyfiled, Bowe, Moorer, and even a 94 Foreman to.

-I found he had a lucky escape with Vitali Klitschko. I found Vitali was possibly on his way to doing a upset, only for the cuts. He should of gave Vitali a rematch, but instead retired. Which I found very dissapointing.

Lewis was a dominant HW champion and did leave a legacy at the weight. But I must say I question his some of his greatness. When I look into his resume and losses, and his best wins.

In my OPINION I don't feel he breaks into a top 10 HW ATG list.

I rank Ali, Louis, Johnson, Marciano, Dempsey, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier, Tyson, & Jeffries all higher.

how many mccall & rahman fights have you seen? or are you just another "look at boxing rec & go from that"type of poster.i own almost all of their fights & i will say they had some good fights in which they lost.another guy is frans botha.ray mercer had a decent career but was plagued by the problems many american HW's have.he fought lewis in his prime & almost beat him.mercer had many good fights as well.watch his fight with tommy morrison or tim witherspoon.there is a reason these recycled HW's keep showing up.the division has very little depth.there is haye,boytsov,helenius,dimitrenko,pulev,arreola,sol is & a few others but there are 4 world titles so there are many regional belts to gain a good ranking in one of the organizations.mercer's best stretch in his career was after avenging the embarrassing loss to jesse ferguson he fought evander holyfield, lennox lewis & tim witherspoon.he went 1-2 but was a force in all 3.he gained more from 2 losses then any wins he ever got.

[CarlosG815]

Chavez-Taylor was an even worse call, so maybe we just see these things differently. I do believe that a referee should be subjective and base his actions on a situation. You just don't stop a heavyweight championship fight as quickly as you would for an 18 y/o who gets hurt in a prelim match. And you certainly don't stop a title fight when there is two seconds left and the champion isn't even getting hit.

Once again, when else was a heavyweight title taken from a champion that quickly? And since you didn't answer, there would have been a RIOT if Tyson were ever stopped like that.

Scott when a guy can't continue, he can't continue. When was Tyson ever wobbled, glossy eyed, and stumbling around like that? Hell, Tyson was more fit to continue against Holyfield than Lennox was against McCall. What do you think about that?

And like I said, it's hard to say because there have been very few champions who have been demolished so quickly as Lennox Lewis has in multiple fights.

[$Bullsfam$]

Nobody answered me, is it not a double standard that people don't give Rocky a lot of credit for KOing Louis, Walcott and Charles, but give Lewis lots of credit for beating Old Tyson & Holyfield? His best win like I said is probably Vital actually and their's a lot of controversy over that fight because Vital was winning although is was fists that bloodied the man up, but then they didn't rematch.

Still agree on his best day he's a handful for anybody, but really I just wanna know why Rocky don't get any credit. Both can't be blamed for the era they fought in though but they dominated.

[Dave Rado]

Many reputable boxing writers and historians share the same opinion of Lennox Lewis. He doesn't belong anywhere near a top 10 ATG HW list. It's a slap in the face to those who are truly great.

Rubbish. Cliff Rold ranks him #9. Monte D. Cox also ranks him #9. The International Boxing Research Organisation (whose rankings are a concensus of roughly 30 of the most respected boxing historians in the world) ranks him #12, which is only just outside the top 10.

[BigStereotype]

Anyway, to the topic at hand. I give Lewis a lot of credit for beating up on some good fighters. Do some people overrated him? Hell yeah. That "Lewis is the unquestionable GOAT" thread comes to mind. But a lot of people overstate his losses when they give others passes. I think that Lewis is a great fighter with a sterling resume, probably a 7-10 heavyweight. It fluctuates based on my mood haha but he's consistently around there for me. Definitely top ten, in my opinion.

[Dave Rado]

Nobody answered me, is it not a double standard that people don't give Rocky a lot of credit for KOing Louis, Walcott and Charles, but give Lewis lots of credit for beating Old Tyson & Holyfield?

Tyson was ranked top 3 by The Ring and by most independent rankings when Lewis beat him and Holyfield was ranked #2 when Lewis beat him. And while with the benefit of hindsight, Lewis doesn't deserve a lot of credit for the Tyson win, Holyfield was still a truly world class fighter when they fought, not far from his best.

Joe Louis was no longer considered to be a top 10 Heavyweight by anyone when Marciano beat him. Marciano does deserve credit for beating Walcott and Charles - but Charles was an ATG Light Heavyweight but only a good Heavyweight, not a great one; and yet Charles gave Marciano all the trouble he could handle. And that wasn't Marciano having an off night, that was Marciano at his best.

Lewis had a few off-nights and some bad losses, but he avenged the losses convincingly and his resume and skills justify a place around the #10 spot. Most boxing historians see it that way.

Duran had some very bad losses as well, but most rank him top 10 P4P and #1 Lightweight of all time. So why do people criticise Lewis so much for his off nights?

[Scott9945]

Scott when a guy can't continue, he can't continue. When was Tyson ever wobbled, glossy eyed, and stumbling around like that? Hell, Tyson was more fit to continue against Holyfield than Lennox was against McCall. What do you think about that?

And like I said, it's hard to say because there have been very few champions who have been demolished so quickly as Lennox Lewis has in multiple fights.

You're refusing to acknowledge my "what if" point about Tyson, so I'll just dismiss that as unanswered. Unlike Lewis, Tyson was glad when the Holyfield fight was over. He had taken a lot of punishment and was getting pounded. Tyson admitted that he didn't remember the second half of that fight, which clearly indicates a concussion. Never heard that Lewis had a concussion from that single right he caught. So in other words, no comparison. The ref was in the tank for Don King, McCall's promoter.

And how many times was Lewis "demolished so quickly"? A 5th round KO isn't considered to be an early KO. So where are all these "multiple fights" Carlos?

[JAB5239]

Rubbish. Cliff Rold ranks him #9. Monte D. Cox also ranks him #9. The International Boxing Research Organisation (whose rankings are a concensus of roughly 30 of the most respected boxing historians in the world) ranks him #12, which is only just outside the top 10.

Like other fighters Lewis' position is bound to rise even more over the nexr 10-20 years.