Ike Ibeabuchi-what if?

[Pastrano]

Mercer is 6'1 and still managed to bust up Lewis good, no? Thats exactly the point-Lewis had no problems with fighters his size, unless they were as good as Rid**** Bowe that is. It was the smaller guys that were faster and could get to him from the inside that were the real problem. Like MCCALL. Like MERCER. Like RAHMAN even, he is 6'2 also. Well, Rahman differs somewhat from the first two, esp from McCall but nvm. Ike had very fast hands for a man of his size and build. You can see that in the Tua fight. He was able to throw and land them from different angles also. Angles always gave Lewis problems as well.

Lewis was best against predictable fighters like Morrison, Ruddock, Briggs etc. You always knew more or less what these guys had in store and they could never improvise or change their battle plan. Ike was different and so was McCall.

[CarlosG815]

What are the facts that would support such an argument. I'm not attacking or discrediting your perspective. I'm just curious to see how your opinion of formed.

My personal opinion would stems from watching both fighters. I too loved the idea if Ike and Lewis but lets get done some facts first.

Lewis is 6'5 Ike 6'2
Reach 84" Ike 76"

Common opponent Tua which they both went 12 rounds with. Ike went toe to toe an one a decision. Lewis went 12 round also also won a decision but on the cards it wasn't even close.

Byrd was a highlight reel KO for IKE Lewis would have done much of the same if they had met. Byrd has lost to all competent larger heavyweights.

Style wise lewis would break you down with a jab. double jab to body or head. In the mid to later rounds he would open up with his better punch, the right cross. another lethal weapon was his right uppercut which was almost equally as devastating for opponents reaching in, or on the inside. He also could fight inside and either tall or short depending on what suited him.

Style wise Ike had a very offensive style. Very good with a piston snapping jab decent right hand. He would break you down with the Jab and try to light you up for power shots, his hooks. His hooks where set up by his jab. He had a decent right hand but nothing special. Ike also had a good work rate and was built like a tank. One might say almost like a body builder which made him proficient on his feet but not nimble. Ike also fought on the outside very tall.

Lewis defense was his jab. He had decent ability to cover up he would hold and lean to slow the pace at times good reaction time getting out of the way of shots.

Ike defense was his jab also. but had a poor ability covering up he would use good head movement to substitute. I would say his fitness also allowed him to take punishing shots from time to time .

IMHO I see the fight going two ways a majority decision for lewis Or a late Ko by lewis.

Reasons being. When both fighters set up their offence with the same weapon
the person with the natural advantage usually wins. Lewis being taller with longer reach and throwing a jab down hill would eventually begin to discourage Ike with his jab Ike's being thrown uphill which is much more difficult. Considering Ike can't time him with a KO right cross, it only makes lewis's job easier. Foe Ike to throw a right hand he would also have to reach wish poses many problems, Lewis's Uppercut or his right hand. With the jab going into the later round a decent right hand is soon to follow. Ike would try to bull his way inside use head movement but considering the reach advantage of lewis and his ability to tie up and use his right uppercut Ike would always be the one walking him down but not instilling effective aggression. Lewis would stay on the outside because of his shaky chin BUT Ike doesn't posses something exceptional to bridge that gap. His work rate would keep him out of trouble but he wasn't slick or quick enough with his legs to set up his shots. If Ike pushed the action it would only be to his disadvantage his main weapon would be nerf'ed and he would leave himself open to more punishment, which is a double edged sword wearing on his stamina leading him into a late round KO or TKO.

just my thoughts what are yours?

Are you of the opinion that the common opponent in Tua is really a comparable fight, as Tua was prime when he fought Ike, and when he fought Lewis he was a fat slob and in no condition to fight, weighing in at a career high 245 pounds?

And you are assuming that Lewis would beat Byrd?

[Dudley]

Mercer is 6'1 and still managed to bust up Lewis good, no? Thats exactly the point-Lewis had no problems with fighters his size, unless they were as good as Rid**** Bowe that is. It was the smaller guys that were faster and could get to him from the inside that were the real problem. Like MCCALL. Like MERCER. Like RAHMAN even, he is 6'2 also. Well, Rahman differs somewhat from the first two, esp from McCall but nvm. Ike had very fast hands for a man of his size and build. You can see that in the Tua fight. He was able to throw and land them from different angles also. Angles always gave Lewis problems as well.

Lewis was best against predictable fighters like Morrison, Ruddock, Briggs etc. You always knew more or less what these guys had in store and they could never improvise or change their battle plan. Ike was different and so was McCall.

Ray Mercer and Ike are two separate skill levels. Yeah Ray got to Lewis because. Ray knew how to box. Ike had fast single punches, not combinations . Also Ray's resume in regards to opposition what much deeper that Ike's possessed physical gifts he was by no means a cerebral fighter. Lewis would make most of his opposition predictable with his jab. He would lul them to sleep till he put them to bed with the right. I've never seen anything like that with Ike. He imposed his physical gifts on Byrd. Lewis would hold slow the fight and set it up again.

What Lewis are we talking about here, Prime lewis or pre-prime?

[Dudley]

Are you of the opinion that the common opponent in Tua is really a comparable fight, as Tua was prime when he fought Ike, and when he fought Lewis he was a fat slob and in no condition to fight, weighing in at a career high 245 pounds?

And you are assuming that Lewis would beat Byrd?

Ah fair enough.

Chis bird. Give me a scenario he would win?

Again are we talking Prime vs Prime here? Because Ike had 20 fights.

[Pastrano]

Ray Mercer and Ike are two separate skill levels. Yeah Ray got to Lewis because. Ray knew how to box. Ike had fast single punches, not combinations . Also Ray's resume in regards to opposition what much deeper that Ike's possessed physical gifts he was by no means a cerebral fighter. Lewis would make most of his opposition predictable with his jab. He would lul them to sleep till he put them to bed with the right. I've never seen anything like that with Ike. He imposed his physical gifts on Byrd. Lewis would hold slow the fight and set it up again.

What Lewis are we talking about here, Prime lewis or pre-prime?

Merciless lost to Holmes cos he couldn't box that well back then, even he said so. But he got better and I believe Ike would too. Ike did show signs of talent already, it was only a matter of would he get the proper training to further develop his skills. Hey, I'm not saying he would win FOR SURE but he had a good chance. He could take a helluva punch and Lewis always relied on stopping his opponent, first and foremost. I think he could punch himself out trying to stop Ibeabuchi. And then he'd get axed down. Bruno gave Lewis a boxing lesson, BRUNO for god's sake! Ok, Lewis wasn't yet really prime yet as a boxer, but still.

[mickey malone]

Excellent post and very factual. however in this forum you have now "committed suicide" because this forum is a Lennox Lewis fanclub and you are not allowed to tell it like it really was about Lennox career, you can only make statements of how Lennox would simply be "Too Big, Too Tall and how he would simply keep his opponents behind the jab unto he felt like knocking them out... How Lennox would beat every heavyweight in history in a 10 fight series and how Lennox has got beautiful hairstyle etc etc.. you will now be ridiculed and trashed for your crime of questioning the career of the Great Lennox before you get banned from the forum and "THE THREE STOOGES" will celebrate your banishing (JAB, Scott & Joseph) and continue their quest to ban every member until only those 3 remain then they can tall to eachother about Lennox their hero.... over the last 12 months they have destroyed this History section and chased away every single member who knew the sport of boxing and enjoyed debating it. we are now left with The 3 Stooges backing eachother up and ganging up on anyone who dare to have any kind of opinion on this sport which differs from their own... my theory to all members who enjoy the sport of boxing is to abstain from this forum unto we get rid of JAB the moderator who has destroyed this history section along with his two cronies.... Sonnyboy

Hi Sonny, i wouldn't say it's a Lennox Lewis fan club here as there's clearly several posters who don't rate him, but there's a total lack of objectivity going on here.

What we have to grasp with Lewis is that he was very capable of both losing to, as well as beating anyone in the top 20 throughout the whole of his career. I remember when he first turned up on British soil and proudly announced he was gonna win the British, Commonwealth, European and World heavyweight titles and i thought, like **** u are! and i bet a pound to a pinch of **** you did too. But look, he went and proved us wrong and whether it be through good management, fighting contenders with issues or who weren't at the top of their game, the guy totally did what he said he was gonna do.

Like you i agree strongly he had a lot of flaws, but if you take away the 2 ko's, he got better with every fight, making the odd wise move along the way. He knew full well that his defense was crap so went over to Manny Steward inorder to fix it and imo was a much better fighter for it.
All in all, what he accomplished can't be sniffed at, and one can go on forever about the things he didn't do, just as one can with Dempsey, Marciano, Holmes and many other greats so to assassinate his career is purely futile.

Lewis is long gone now so let him rest in peace, because when you look at the standard of competition faced by the Klits and the fact he handed one of them a good slap on the way out, says quite a lot really.

Back to the TS question, i'd say a 20 fight Ibeabuchi would probably wipe the floor with a 20 fight Lewis, but against a seasoned Lewis would most likely lose on points.
Had he not had a mental illness and improved his defense, there's no reason to suggest he wouldn't have become champ.

[Dudley]

Merciless lost to Holmes cos he couldn't box that well back then, even he said so. But he got better and I believe Ike would too. Ike did show signs of talent already, it was only a matter of would he get the proper training to further develop his skills. Hey, I'm not saying he would win FOR SURE but he had a good chance. He could take a helluva punch and Lewis always relied on stopping his opponent, first and foremost. I think he could punch himself out trying to stop Ibeabuchi. And then he'd get axed down. Bruno gave Lewis a boxing lesson, BRUNO for god's sake! Ok, Lewis wasn't yet really prime yet as a boxer, but still.

I respect your opinion, but it sounds like your creating from allot of unknowns.

Do I like the fight yes.

But Ike ****ed himself being a dumb ass.

[Pastrano]

Mickey i agree with most of what you say buddy, yet i cannot have Lewis as an ATG Top 10 fighter in anyway. his chin was terrible and both Rahman & McCall who poleaxed him never replicated that kind of one punch KO power before or again in their careers, my biggest gripe with Lewis is his refusal to fight the best and only fighting guys who was on the downside of their career so Carlos hit the nail on the head on this subject when he said "Lewis would not fight Ike" that is also my opinion... Yet Lewis is the best Heavyweight Britain has ever had although he is Canadian and lived there since he was 12yrs old and still lives there.

But McCall did, as I already stated, ko Akinwande with one punch. Maskaev fight...gotta see it again, was it one punch? Mighta been two.

[mickey malone]

Mickey i agree with most of what you say buddy, yet i cannot have Lewis as an ATG Top 10 fighter in anyway. his chin was terrible and both Rahman & McCall who poleaxed him never replicated that kind of one punch KO power before or again in their careers, my biggest gripe with Lewis is his refusal to fight the best and only fighting guys who was on the downside of their career so Carlos hit the nail on the head on this subject when he said "Lewis would not fight Ike" that is also my opinion... Yet Lewis is the best Heavyweight Britain has ever had although he is Canadian and lived there since he was 12yrs old and still lives there.

I think this is where the dislike slips in, and tbh The fact he's officially English but won gold for Canada, then came to England to maximise his marketability while pretending to be a born again ****ney, was rather insulting to say the least but once again, it was another very wise career move on behalf of his management team. Infact, i'm sure he'd have been quite happy to start talking like Bob Marley and have based himself in Jamaica had it been deemed the better alternative.

He got smoked by McCall and Rahman for losing concentration, not for having a crap chin, and there also seems to be a misguided conception that McCall & Rahman were a couple of bums who couldn't ****. McCall in particular, has to be one of the strongest men ever to step into the ring.

Anyway Sonny, hope you don't get banned coz i've been trying to convince others that you don't really hate Lewis and it's all just a big wind-up lol

[Scott9945]

Excellent post and very factual. however in this forum you have now "committed suicide" because this forum is a Lennox Lewis fanclub and you are not allowed to tell it like it really was about Lennox career, you can only make statements of how Lennox would simply be "Too Big, Too Tall and how he would simply keep his opponents behind the jab unto he felt like knocking them out... How Lennox would beat every heavyweight in history in a 10 fight series and how Lennox has got beautiful hairstyle etc etc.. you will now be ridiculed and trashed for your crime of questioning the career of the Great Lennox before you get banned from the forum and "THE THREE STOOGES" will celebrate your banishing (JAB, Scott & Joseph) and continue their quest to ban every member until only those 3 remain then they can tall to eachother about Lennox their hero.... over the last 12 months they have destroyed this History section and chased away every single member who knew the sport of boxing and enjoyed debating it. we are now left with The 3 Stooges backing eachother up and ganging up on anyone who dare to have any kind of opinion on this sport which differs from their own... my theory to all members who enjoy the sport of boxing is to abstain from this forum unto we get rid of JAB the moderator who has destroyed this history section along with his two cronies.... Sonnyboy

Paranoid much? There isn't really much question that you are prone to ridiculous exaggerations. So will YOU be abstaining from posting your propaganda in this forum with various alts? Yeah, I didn't think so