Kostya Tszyu vs Oscar De La Hoya @140

[BigStereotype]

Is this a joke?

Ok...so...

We have an extremely debatable decision win over a past-it Whitaker
Not even going to mention Chavez...
UD win over Camacho
Debatable (although less so) win over Quartey
TKO over Oba Carr
Extremely debatable loss to Tito
Clear loss to Mosley
Annihilation of Gatti

There. There's Oscar's welterweight resume. He has ONE clear win over a good fighter, that's Oba Carr. Camacho and Chavez were old, small and addled by drugs. Bull**** losses. Either guy could win the Whitaker fight, it's really close, he didn't look at all "dominant." Either guy could win the Quartey fight, not quite as close, didn't look "dominant" in that won either. Bull**** loss to Tito, but I feel like that makes up for the bad karma from the Whitaker fight. He gave away the last third of that fight, didn't deserve to win it although he outfought Trinidad. And then he lost a competitive fight to Mosley. Shane CLEARLY beat him though.

So exactly where is this "domination?"

[CarlosG815]

Ok...so...

We have an extremely debatable decision win over a past-it Whitaker
Not even going to mention Chavez...
UD win over Camacho
Debatable (although less so) win over Quartey
TKO over Oba Carr
Extremely debatable loss to Tito
Clear loss to Mosley
Annihilation of Gatti

There. There's Oscar's welterweight resume. He has ONE clear win over a good fighter, that's Oba Carr. Camacho and Chavez were old, small and addled by drugs. Bull**** losses. Either guy could win the Whitaker fight, it's really close, he didn't look at all "dominant." Either guy could win the Quartey fight, not quite as close, didn't look "dominant" in that won either. Bull**** loss to Tito, but I feel like that makes up for the bad karma from the Whitaker fight. He gave away the last third of that fight, didn't deserve to win it although he outfought Trinidad. And then he lost a competitive fight to Mosley. Shane CLEARLY beat him though.

So exactly where is this "domination?"

You have yet to tell me who was the more dominant welterweight and for you to say debatable decision over Whitaker tells me you have not seen the fights. That is a fight where people like to say Oscar got a gift but if you watch it you will see this is not the case.

You have just picked apart a beautiful resume. Please tell me who was more dominant and who Oscar should have fought, as what you have done above can be done to any fighter and much easier and could be made to look worse

He did lose to Shane Mosley but as you said it was a very competitive fight and that is to a guy who was juiced up on steroids and despite being a steroid freak Oscar was able to beat him at 154, as he did a steroid freak in Vargas as well.

You don't have to like Oscar but don't ignore the question at hand.

[BennyST]

Tszyu KO'S delehojo in seven. Tszyu applies too much pressure.

Huh? Serious? Don't be a tosser.

I don't know. I think I'd probably go with an Oscar decision in a close fight he got dropped in and was very close. I think a lot of people underrated Tzsyu now, but if we're talking at their best, it's a bloody close fight.

However, I'd probably give the edge to Oscar. Saying that, the common opponents were beaten by Tzsyu a hell of lot worse, so it's hard to say.

[BennyST]

Kostya should have rematched him anyway. its a pretty glaring loss on his record. Its like Khan and Prescott...sure, Prescott doesnt deserve a title shot, but if I were Khan/Kostya I would have definitely wanted to avenge my only loss, even if it was a non-title side fight.

I've always found this bizarre. You have brought up the perfect example too! Recently Khan beat Maidana and a lot was brought up of the Prescott rematch even though (just as had happened with Tzsyu/Phillips) Prescott had lost to someone who could be considered less than a top fighter, while Khan was beating the best, and while Prescott had taken a massive dive, Khan had surged forward.

But, what's the worst part is that 95% of boxing fans said that if Khan takes a Prescott rematch it would show he's just trying to ***** out of any bigger fights and get away with beating crappy fighters that he didn't need to deal with. There was so much of that and I, for one, remember that that was exactly how it was back when Tzsyu came back and started destroying guys again and looking even more brutal. No one wanted to even consider that fight.

Boxing is a funny old game isn't it? Khan was being slagged horribly for even considering the thought of taking a Prescott rematch and yet in another fifteen/twenty years, he's going to be getting so much ****e for not taking it it'll hurt his standing in any HOF-type standing if he gets that far....guaranteed.

[BennyST]

Thats not really true though.

Explain that one for all of us. especially those of us who would have considered someone like Hopkins king at 160, Martinez king at 160, Darch king at 115, etc etc.

[BennyST]

Well I think calling him the "king" for 10 years is a pretty simplistic way of putting it, he wasn't consistently on top for 10 years, he lost to Phillips in '97(making him ranked #1 for that year) without avenging the loss, he wasn't champion until smashing Zab in 2 (though he did fight some good competition in between), then there's the inactivity where he fought once a year against so-so competition.

So, you're saying that Hopkins was only the number one middleweight in the world for one measly year?!?!?!

That is pretty sad. I'd always heard he was the number one guy for nearly a decade.....obviously everyone is wrong.

[BennyST]

Still don't get it? Ok. Being the "man" at 140 isn't saying a lot when there is nobody in the division, ie Ricky Hatton being the "man" and getting stomped when he fought a great fighter in Mayweather. Tszyu would be no exception and stepping into the class of DLH would get beat up just the same as Hatton when he stepped up in competition.

Ummmm......how was Tzsyu the 'man' when Ricky Hatton was losing to Mayweather in 2009 or whatever?

[BennyST]

I dont think Oscar catches him with a left hook at all. I cant remember Tyszu getting hit with too many left hooks his entire career, he always kept his right hand up to his chin, almost exactly where DLHs left hook would land.(unless it strayed up to the top of his head).

Kostya had problems with pressure fighters, and DLH was never amazing at that since his right hand was a bit underdeveloped/utilized at 140lbs. Kostya had really excellent timing, I think he could pretty quickly adapt to DLHs handspeed and start timing his right hand onto his head pretty often.

Comparing the two's performances against Gonzalez at 140lbs, they were in the same class. I see this as a close fight, where Oscar would win in spurts while Kostya controls the action inbetween those offensive assaults.

As often the case, BI comes in with one of the few unbiased posts. Due to the styles, I really see this as a very close fight with oscar's hand speed and finishing flurries stealing the rounds late just enough.

Other than that, he really doesn't do anything that ever troubled Tzsyu in the slightest.

[Daddy T]

as much as i like tszyu I'd be surprised if oscar didn't get the better of this one

[BigStereotype]

You have yet to tell me who was the more dominant welterweight and for you to say debatable decision over Whitaker tells me you have not seen the fights. That is a fight where people like to say Oscar got a gift but if you watch it you will see this is not the case.

You have just picked apart a beautiful resume. Please tell me who was more dominant and who Oscar should have fought, as what you have done above can be done to any fighter and much easier and could be made to look worse

He did lose to Shane Mosley but as you said it was a very competitive fight and that is to a guy who was juiced up on steroids and despite being a steroid freak Oscar was able to beat him at 154, as he did a steroid freak in Vargas as well.

You don't have to like Oscar but don't ignore the question at hand.

Nobody was more dominant because nobody was dominant for the era. Not every era has a Marvin Hagler. Because of the quality of welterweights at the time, they beat each other up and lost to each other.

Also, most people say that the Sweet Pea decision is at the very least questionable. At the very least.