Rating Frazier

[Scott9945]

I have Frazier ranked at 11 just behind Tyson...Tyson's edge in chin the deciding factor.

Poet

I haven't seen the rest of your ratings, but to me it looks like you have Tyson and Frazier in the right place. If you rated the best according to their primes they'd probably be higher. They were both killing machines at their absolute peak.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

The tail-end of the top-10 for my money.

[StarshipTrooper]

I haven't seen the rest of your ratings, but to me it looks like you have Tyson and Frazier in the right place. If you rated the best according to their primes they'd probably be higher. They were both killing machines at their absolute peak.

I always rate primarily on prime years, I just don't rank based on one fight when deciding on a fighter's peak. I define prime years as when a fighter's in there physical prime AND have sufficient experience to go along with it and extending to the point when their reflexes start to slide. Once a fighters reflexes start to slip I consider them past-prime and when those reflexes are gone I consider them shot.

Poet

[them_apples]

I have Frazier ranked at 11 just behind Tyson...Tyson's edge in chin the deciding factor.

Oh, and for the record, Norton does NOT have a win over Holmes: Norton has a decision LOSS to Holmes in a fight that wasn't quite as close as the scorecards would have you believe.

Poet

Yeah, Holmes won that one. Even though I can't stand Larry Holmes. That's not to say a prime Norton might have given Holmes an even bigger test though. I know Norton wasn't past it totally, but he was a lot lighter and less muscle bound when he fought Ali the first time at 205, he had good speed back then.

Anyways, Take away the brutal stoppage from Foreman and Frazier has a great resume. He was an amazing amateur, and didn't stop in the pro ranks either. The guy beat everybody and kept going even past Ali, it was pretty much Foreman, arguably the heaviest puncher of all time that makes Frazier look bad.

I need to remake my ATG list since mine is old, but I plan on putting him up a little higher. Frazier is an underated ATG HW. The guy got a draw (gift) when he was an old man against a guy named Jumbo cummings, same dude that sparked Frank Bruno (I think) just kinda gives you an idea what kind of a monster he was in his prime. I don't think he was the heaviest puncher, even in his left, but at his peak he's got underrated hand-speed and a ****ton of stamina. People also need to realize how many times Foreman had to put Frazier down to actually stop him, not many could actually keep him down.

I have Frazier beating Lewis, Louis, Holmes and maybe Holyfield (thats a tough one based on styles). Frazier even beat Ali, a pretty damn good version of Ali as well. That was a fast Ali, who was in shape.

Him vs Lewis : Frazier sits in the pocket the entire fight and wears Lewis down. Potentially tastes the Canvas at some point, but his head movement makes it difficult for Lewis to deal with. (Ali had a hard time hitting Frazier and he was a fast HW).

him vs Louis: They both might go down, but Frazier get's up and I'm not too certain how 190 lb Louis deals with a prime Joe Fraziers left hook over and over. My basic point is, Louis doesn't hit harder than Foreman nor does he possess a lethal uppercut like Foreman. That leaves it down to punch resistance.

Him vs Holmes: Holmes was like Ali with a stiffer jab and average footwork (he couldn't move as well, and his head movement was average) I will say though he had great handspeed, one of the fastest HW's of all time. Holmes would fight like Ali only he'd move less. More time for Frazier to do work.

Him vs Holyfield: well, its tough because they both possess the same qualities. Holyfields got the better chin, they hit about the same, I'd say Frazier has some better body work though due to his lower center of gravity. Frazier in my book has a little more in him in the late rounds so I might edge it to him again.

I see Frazier losing to Liston, Foreman, possibly Tyson unless he survives at least 6 rounds, even then he might lose the decision (15 round fight? who knows)

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Louis didn't possess a lethal uppercut!? Primo Carnera, Tony Galento, Buddy Baer & a host of others would disagree with you there.

[them_apples]

Louis didn't possess a lethal uppercut!? Primo Carnera, Tony Galento, Buddy Baer & a host of others would disagree with you there.

No he didn't. Louis is not known for his uppercut. Thats like saying Frazier had a lethal uppercut because he used it well against Ron stander.

Foremans uppercut was something else.

And Primo Carnera, Tony Galento and Buddy baer aren't anything to measure your uppercut by.

[Barn]

The tail-end of the top-10 for my money.

Yep, I believe I have him at 8 or 9. It's his longelivity and his title defences that let him down. He does have a good resume though, not ground-breaking by any means but, still solid.

[CarlosG815]

The strangest list i have ever seen...

Jack Dempsey not in the top 10 ?
Joe Frazier not in the top 10 ?
Rocky Marciano rated No10 ?
but the howler of all howlers is Lennox Lewis rated No5 ahead of Foreman, Tyson, Marciano, Dempsey, Frazier, Holyfield & Sonny Liston... incredible that the moderator of the site rates Lewis so highly and above all those legendary Heavyweight champions... JAB the buffoon moderator who deletes any thread which calls into question the career of Lennox Lewis because Lewis is JABs favourite heavyweight, JAB actually fancies Lewis and loves the guys hairstyle so much that he is growing his own hair long so he can get ringlets in it like Lewis.... could you imagine Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman poleaxing Frazier, Liston, Foreman, Tyson, Holyfield or Dempsey... Holyfield butchered Rahman when he was in his 40s, Mike"Bounty"Hunter schooled McCall as did Juan Carlos Gomez yet JAB claims Lewis was robbed against McCall and was not focused against Rahman lol...This thread will be deleted by JAB the instance he see's it because JAB thinks of himself as Lennox No1 fan and would rate Lennox at No1 all time but he knows he will come in for some flak if he does that so he puts him at No5..... No3 is Larry Holmes? which just shows how much knowledge of boxing history JAB the buffoon moderator really has...

Mind boggling and laughable at the same time. Definitely one of the worst lists I have seen.

[Vadrigar.]

you need to see some of the PMs sent to me by JAB saying how he will delete every comment about Lennox Lewis which he does not agree with...i made a point on this forum before JAB was made the moderator saying that the forum would be turned into a fanclub for Lennox Lewis and that we would have ridiculous threads made claiming Lewis to be the greatest of all time and yo-and-behold JAB the Moderator sets the ball rolling in his quest to transform the forum into "The Lennox Lewis Fanclub"...

Here is what the Boxing Historian think compared to JAB who has them rated No3 & No5
http://cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/ca...olmesLewis.htm

Here is what those same Historians think of how highly Joe Frazier should be rated
http://cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/casey/MC_Frazier.htm

JAB the buffoon Moderator who's claim to fame is turning BoxingScene History section into a fanclub for Lennox Lewis and who will delete any thread about Lewis which does not praise him as the greatest.

Thanks, I'll have a read. Yeah, just try and send those PM's to me if you can.

[joseph5620]

Yeah, Holmes won that one. Even though I can't stand Larry Holmes. That's not to say a prime Norton might have given Holmes an even bigger test though. I know Norton wasn't past it totally, but he was a lot lighter and less muscle bound when he fought Ali the first time at 205, he had good speed back then.

Anyways, Take away the brutal stoppage from Foreman and Frazier has a great resume. He was an amazing amateur, and didn't stop in the pro ranks either. The guy beat everybody and kept going even past Ali, it was pretty much Foreman, arguably the heaviest puncher of all time that makes Frazier look bad.

I need to remake my ATG list since mine is old, but I plan on putting him up a little higher. Frazier is an underated ATG HW. The guy got a draw (gift) when he was an old man against a guy named Jumbo cummings, same dude that sparked Frank Bruno (I think) just kinda gives you an idea what kind of a monster he was in his prime. I don't think he was the heaviest puncher, even in his left, but at his peak he's got underrated hand-speed and a ****ton of stamina. People also need to realize how many times Foreman had to put Frazier down to actually stop him, not many could actually keep him down.

I have Frazier beating Lewis, Louis, Holmes and maybe Holyfield (thats a tough one based on styles). Frazier even beat Ali, a pretty damn good version of Ali as well. That was a fast Ali, who was in shape.

Him vs Lewis : Frazier sits in the pocket the entire fight and wears Lewis down. Potentially tastes the Canvas at some point, but his head movement makes it difficult for Lewis to deal with. (Ali had a hard time hitting Frazier and he was a fast HW).

him vs Louis: They both might go down, but Frazier get's up and I'm not too certain how 190 lb Louis deals with a prime Joe Fraziers left hook over and over. My basic point is, Louis doesn't hit harder than Foreman nor does he possess a lethal uppercut like Foreman. That leaves it down to punch resistance.

Him vs Holmes: Holmes was like Ali with a stiffer jab and average footwork (he couldn't move as well, and his head movement was average) I will say though he had great handspeed, one of the fastest HW's of all time. Holmes would fight like Ali only he'd move less. More time for Frazier to do work.

Him vs Holyfield: well, its tough because they both possess the same qualities. Holyfields got the better chin, they hit about the same, I'd say Frazier has some better body work though due to his lower center of gravity. Frazier in my book has a little more in him in the late rounds so I might edge it to him again.

I see Frazier losing to Liston, Foreman, possibly Tyson unless he survives at least 6 rounds, even then he might lose the decision (15 round fight? who knows)

Never happened. Cummings was a journeyman clubfighter and nothing more.