Did Buster Douglas Really Beat Mike Tyson??

[Yogi]

Go back and watch again. Holmes briefly clinched when Shavers first approached after the knockdown. Holmes stood flat-footed and tried landing some one punch right hand power shots that were sloppy and inaccurate. Holmes while still hurt was momentarily on the ropes and covered briefly before punching to get off. Holmes punch of choice when hurt was the right hand and right uppercut. Not a lot of movement, not alot of holding until the referee would break and not alot of covering up. Same with the Witherspoon fight.

I don't need to watch it again because I just watched it yesterday...My memory isn't that bad, you know, and my description of it is the basics of what happened after the knockdown.

But I did watch it again and this is what happened;

- Shavers knocked him down with a big right hand!
- Holmes got up and ducked under a attempted right by Shavers while grabbing him in a clinch
- The ref breaks it up and while Holmes is moving away, Shavers misses with a left
- Holmes starts trying to bounce on his feet and looks to move to his right, but Shavers throws a wild right which Holmes ducks under & away from to his left and backwards (stumbles with his movement)
- About 15 seconds after the ref resumes the action, Holmes stands still for a few moments and attempts a couple of pitiful right hand punches, which is only a short sequence of about three seconds
- Holmes then again tries to move on his feet, throws a jab, and then backs up to the ropes where he attempts to grab Shavers in a clinch
- Shavers breaks free before the ref gets there, and proceeds to throw about five or six punches at Holmes who was covering up in the corner
- With less than ten seconds left to go in the round, Holmes gets off the ropes by throwing a right uppercut & moves around Shavers, and then throws about two more right hands and a jab before the round ends (while moving backwards).


With the exception of about 7 or 8 seconds in total (which were about the number of punches he attempted), during the last 35-40 seconds of that round after he got up & the action was resumed, Holmes was primarily thinking defense in that cloudy mind of his, as he did attempt two clinches, three sequences of trying to move away from Shavers, tried ducking at least a couple of times when on the defensive, and the one occasion where he covers up for about five seconds in the corner.

[Yogi]

I guess he was SLOW

If you want to make comparisions to other Heavyweights that were actually "quick" with their punches...yes, "SLOW" (with the emphasis) would the correct & most accurate definition of Foreman's handspeed.

[Yogi]

Dude, you know better than that....you're just being silly and obstinate, now. I know you're intelligent and know your **** because I've read your posts. But don't argue such a petty posistion as what's snapping and what's not. Ali never was a power puncher and if you don't call those snapping punches "snapping" then I don't know what the hell you're talking about. They were off the back foot; but his shoulder was into it, hence...."snapping" and not arm punches.

Good grief.

Nope, arm punches off the back foot is what I saw Ali primarily throwing in that fight when he was off the ropes...especially when compared to what Holmes, who actually stepped into his shots & turned his body into them, would be throwing at Foreman.

[Yogi]

By your guy's definition of "snapping" someone's head back, Norton must have did that eight times in the very first minute and a half of his fight with Foreman, because he noticably landed eight punches (five jabs, I believe and three left hooks) that moved Foreman's face somewhat...check it out!

[the traveler]

If you want to make comparisions to other Heavyweights that were actually "quick" with their punches...yes, "SLOW" (with the emphasis) would the correct & most accurate definition of Foreman's handspeed.

If you put an average Yale graduate in the same room with Galileo and Einstein do they suddenly lose their smarts?

[boxing912]

this must stop

tyson got killed. lost every round but maybe the first which was close and the round where he knocked down buster.i dont understand how one of the judjes had tyson winning up until that point it was such a obvious beating

[Yogi]

If you put an average Yale graduate in the same room with Galileo and Einstein do they suddenly lose their smarts?

****** comparision.

In the field of education an average Yale graduate is still going to be very intelligent when compared to others who are pursueing an education...WELL above average

In the field of Heavyweight boxing, Foreman's speed is not even merely average from what I've seen from MANY Heavyweight fights over the years (from prospects, to "opponents", to contenders, to champions from that division), and that's even being a little bit generous to him.

Give it up, bro...Foreman is a slow puncher no matter what direction you try to twist it.

[the traveler]

****** comparison? You did say "compared to quick fighters", which I used as "einstein and galileo-- above smart guys whom are much smarter than the smart yale graduate" I was only giving a comparison to prove your point wrong. Now, you went and changed what you said to "not quick as far as the average heavyweight goes" now that's just ******.

The comparison wasn't ****** at all. The point I was trying to make is that, though he may not be as quick as some of the quickest, he is still has some speed "at times". I think more than anything, he looked slow during times when he'd throw caculated punches. When the guy wanted, he could be very fast.

GO BACK AND LOOK AT HIS FIGHT AGAINST PAEZ. Those combos that he threw to knock the guy down both times were not slow punches. If you still watch that and think that he didn't have the speed, then I'd advise you to get your eyes examined.

[smasher]

few moments and attempts a couple of pitiful right hand punches, which is only a short sequence of about three seconds
- With less than ten seconds left to go in the round, Holmes gets off the ropes by throwing a right uppercut & moves around Shavers, and then throws about two more right hands and a jab before the round ends .

The point I am trying to make is that a hurt Holmes even on wobbly legs attempts to plant and fire loaded power punches. Not a great trait to have in a fight against George Foreman. Ron Lyle ring a bell?

[SuzieQ49]

ron lyle was dead tired by the 5th round. holmes punches were much faster, straighter, than lyles.