Who would you favor against prime Duran at 135lbs?

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Ike Williams' career is sad because he was never able to achieve his true greatness because of the corruption in boxing.

He was too risky for any big fighters to take on as he would most likely destroy them. He was barred from fighting for a long time because of his devastating skills and it wasn't until he was forced into a contract with mob leader Palermo (forgot his first name), that he was able to fight again.

Palermo would go on to keep 100% of Ike Williams' two largest purses.

Look at how devastating his punches are in the fight with Beau Jack. Despite his career being robbed of potential, he is still regarded highly on the ATG lists.

Blinky Palermo (as he was known, though his actual first name escapes me right now), you are thinking of.

[BennyST]

I agree with you when you say there is a quarter out there which over-rates Duran (or perhaps under-rates the other LW legends?), & it is a bit heavy-handed, so I understand your point there, mate.

Having said that, if this match could somehow be made, I would take your betting money on Marquez to defeat Duran in a heart-beat, & not look back. I cannot possibly see Marquez besting Duran, to be honest. As a LW, Marquez is marginally better than the likes of Ken Buchanan, as well as possessing similarities in both attributes & style...Duran ran him over like a truck. The moderate weaknesses Marquez has shown in his 135lb. contests would be massively magnified against someone like Duran.

He was bigger, he was better, he was younger, it was his weightclass. Duran beats Marquez hands down --- & in a 15-rounder, he certainly wins inside the distance.

Again, not a jot of disrespect to Marquez --- his brother is my favourite current fighter on the planet --- but he is not the fighter he was at Featherweight, & even that man wasn't the 126lb. equivalent of Duran's greatness.

I've got to disagree with that one hugely. Marquez is in no way better than Buchanan at lightweight. Buchanan is an arguable top ten lightweight and definitely a top 15. Marquez, as much as I love him, doesn't get close to being better at lightweight than Buchanan. I would say they are equals with Marquez at 126, and Buchanan still achieved a lot more at 135 than Marquez did at 126.

You want to know someone who's become massively underrated because of one fight? Kenny Buchanan.

Anyway, Marquez would have to be my favourite fighter of all today but sadly, he would literally get a pretty brutal beating and would probably be stopped by the best 135 version of Duran. I say probably because Marquez' heart and will to stay on is second to none.

Anyway, as to the topic, it's impossible to say he (Duran) was unbeatable there because he lost. Yes, he looked a bit crappy and flat in that fight, but no fighter in history at lightweight is unbeatable. It's way too deep a division. The top five or so at lightweight would be one of the great style mixes among some of the greatest fighters ever. Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, Duran, Whitaker, Ortiz.

What a round robin that would be. That's not even taking into account the other greats who could be thrown in the mix. Williams, Napoles, Armstrong, Brown, etc. But at lightweight, all the guys are likely to win and lose to the other top guys. I can't say who I would favour to beat him, if any, but all have a chance, just as much of a chance as he does to beat them.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

I've got to disagree with that one hugely. Marquez is in no way better than Buchanan at lightweight. Buchanan is an arguable top ten lightweight and definitely a top 15. Marquez, as much as I love him, doesn't get close to being better at lightweight than Buchanan. I would say they are equals with Marquez at 126, and Buchanan still achieved a lot more at 135 than Marquez did at 126.

You want to know someone who's become massively underrated because of one fight? Kenny Buchanan.

Anyway, Marquez would have to be my favourite fighter of all today but sadly, he would literally get a pretty brutal beating and would probably be stopped by the best 135 version of Duran. I say probably because Marquez' heart and will to stay on is second to none.

Anyway, as to the topic, it's impossible to say he (Duran) was unbeatable there because he lost. Yes, he looked a bit crappy and flat in that fight, but no fighter in history at lightweight is unbeatable. It's way too deep a division. The top five or so at lightweight would be one of the great style mixes among some of the greatest fighters ever. Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, Duran, Whitaker, Ortiz.

What a round robin that would be. That's not even taking into account the other greats who could be thrown in the mix. Williams, Napoles, Armstrong, Brown, etc. But at lightweight, all the guys are likely to win and lose to the other top guys. I can't say who I would favour to beat him, if any, but all have a chance, just as much of a chance as he does to beat them.

Well, I can see why you disagree strongly --- if you have Buchanan arguably top-10 of all-time at LW, & definitively top-15. I don't have him (or Marquez) even near the top-10.

Really, I should think Buchanan a definite top-30 all-timer at LW, & a possible top-20. It's the steepest division of all-time, IMO, for legends. I will go back & say when I read what you had bolded, I'm not sure I'd stay with that stance. I could certainly accept Buchanan being rated above Marquez as a Lightweight, but it wouldn't be by a whole lot mind, & there's absolutely no way Buchanan would ever see my top-10, personally. Marquez, either.

I certainly hand it to you for the part of your post regarding the LW legends & how they mix with Duran. It's such an insanely competitive division, historically speaking, that all are vulnerable, even as brilliant as they were --- & Duran, for all his powers, is no exception.

[BennyST]

Well, I can see why you disagree strongly --- if you have Buchanan arguably top-10 of all-time at LW, & definitively top-15. I don't have him (or Marquez) even near the top-10.

Really, I should think Buchanan a definite top-30 all-timer at LW, & a possible top-20. It's the steepest division of all-time, IMO, for legends. I will go back & say when I read what you had bolded, I'm not sure I'd stay with that stance. I could certainly accept Buchanan being rated above Marquez as a Lightweight, but it wouldn't be by a whole lot mind, & there's absolutely no way Buchanan would ever see my top-10, personally. Marquez, either.

I certainly hand it to you for the part of your post regarding the LW legends & how they mix with Duran. It's such an insanely competitive division, historically speaking, that all are vulnerable, even as brilliant as they were --- & Duran, for all his powers, is no exception.

Yeah, he's not in my top ten, but he's in a few others. I would however have him in my top fifteen at about 15. His resume at lightweight is really quite brilliant and very overlooked.

Got screwed badly against the Venezuelan guy early on otherwise would, and should, have been undefeated against Duran and stayed with that one loss until Ishimatsu than beat him.

He was a much better fighter than most give him any credit for being because of that one single fight.

Consider the guys on his resume who were greats, or champions, in that era. Duran (loss), Ishimatsu (loss), then you had his wins with Carlos Ortiz, Ismael Laguna x 2, Carlos Hernandez, Jim Watt, Ruben Navarro, etc etc. He only lost three times in his first career, with all other five losses coming when he tried a come back later on for financial reasons and one of those first career three losses should have been a win.

He had a hell of a run.

[Steak]

Its always dissaponting when a fighter is only remembered for one fight: usually a loss. Buchanan was one of those fighters. Personally I think Buchanan would have pretty clearly beaten a LW Marquez.

excellent jab and boxing ability. beat plenty of quality fighters. Wouldve loved to see him vs DeJesus, I wonder how that fight wouldve gone.

[BennyST]

Its always dissaponting when a fighter is only remembered for one fight: usually a loss. Buchanan was one of those fighters. Personally I think Buchanan would have pretty clearly beaten a LW Marquez.

excellent jab and boxing ability. beat plenty of quality fighters. Wouldve loved to see him vs DeJesus, I wonder how that fight wouldve gone.

Yeah, would have been fascinating. He certainly had the height, footwork and jab to really trouble De Jesus. Buchanan was bloody tall for a lightweight. Hell, look at how much he towers over Duran! Duran was an average sized lightweight and Buchanan literally towers over him.

De Jesus was a small lightweight really at only 5'5" 1/2 or something. He would have had a good four inches or so. I tend to think that if they had fought around the time of, or before, Buchanan's fight with Duran, De Jesus would have lost.

[them_apples]

Chavez, Pac, Whitaker, Mayweather all have a good chance. I'd Give Whitaker the best chance since he showed a strong ability fighting backwards, which would probably be the case in this fight. Pac's great but unproven at 135, but he's basically been a beast in every weight class so it's easy to fill in the blanks. Mayweather was amazing at 135 and incredibly fast and agile. I'm curious how he deals with the immense pressure though, and how well does his punching power hold up. Chavez was tough as nails, and his accuracy and good punching power would make it a tough fight.