How does Dempsey match up against the 90's giant heavyweights?

[P4P Opinion]

I've got all the respect in the world for Jack Dempsey, but I think he matches up very badly against Lewis, Bowe and possibly the older version of Foreman. Dempsey's victory over Willard seems to provide evidence of how he'd fare well against larger opponents, but the reality is that we can't take much from that fight for three reasons. Firstly, Willard wasn't much of a fighter from a technical standpoint and beat his opponents with his size more often than with his skill. Secondly, under modern boxing rules Dempsey simply wouldn't be able to overwhelm his opponent as much as he did against Willard - if he puts down any modern fighter they'd be given the 8-count and the distance. Thirdly, the entire controversy over Dempsey's handwraps leaves unanswered questions over the legality of his victory.

I hope nobody reads this as an attack on Dempsey, because I have him inside my top ten heavyweight list, I'm just giving my two cents.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

I've got all the respect in the world for Jack Dempsey, but I think he matches up very badly against Lewis, Bowe and possibly the older version of Foreman. Dempsey's victory over Willard seems to provide evidence of how he'd fare well against larger opponents, but the reality is that we can't take much from that fight for three reasons. Firstly, Willard wasn't much of a fighter from a technical standpoint and beat his opponents with his size more often than with his skill. Secondly, under modern boxing rules Dempsey simply wouldn't be able to overwhelm his opponent as much as he did against Willard - if he puts down any modern fighter they'd be given the 8-count and the distance. Thirdly, the entire controversy over Dempsey's handwraps leaves unanswered questions over the legality of his victory.

I hope nobody reads this as an attack on Dempsey, because I have him inside my top ten heavyweight list, I'm just giving my two cents.

As though Willard was the only big fighter Dempsey destroyed?

[sonnyboyx2]

I've got all the respect in the world for Jack Dempsey, but I think he matches up very badly against Lewis, Bowe and possibly the older version of Foreman. Dempsey's victory over Willard seems to provide evidence of how he'd fare well against larger opponents, but the reality is that we can't take much from that fight for three reasons. Firstly, Willard wasn't much of a fighter from a technical standpoint and beat his opponents with his size more often than with his skill. Secondly, under modern boxing rules Dempsey simply wouldn't be able to overwhelm his opponent as much as he did against Willard - if he puts down any modern fighter they'd be given the 8-count and the distance. Thirdly, the entire controversy over Dempsey's handwraps leaves unanswered questions over the legality of his victory.

I hope nobody reads this as an attack on Dempsey, because I have him inside my top ten heavyweight list, I'm just giving my two cents.

Willard was as good as Lewis make no mistake about that, Rid**** Bowe is by far the most skilled Big Man ever to fight in the ring yet Dempsey loved fighting behemoths like these.. Fred Fulton, Willard, Carl Morris, Bill Tate was all similar in size to Foreman, Bowe & Lewis yet Dempsey "chopped them down" in the opening round... Lewis was excellent at beating guys who was as tall as himself yet struggled with fighters who was under 6ft 2ins with McCall & Rahman both KOing him and he struggled with Ocassio, Butler, Billups, Mercer as well as taking 8rds to beat a shell of Mike Tyson who was not even fighting back... Foreman would be the toughest fight by far for Dempsey as George excelled against smaller fighters who "bobbed & weaved" yet Dempsey could box exceptionally good, he was able to out-box master boxer Tommy Gibbons, i see George coming at Dempsey like he did Frazier with Dempsey looking to avoid the sledgehammers and pouncing like a wildcat when the opening appeared, the end would come towards the end of round 2 with Dempsey having climbed off the floor to attack Foreman (similar to Holyfield v Foreman rd8 - 16 punch salvo) with George sprawled out for the count and Dempsey looking like a Wild-Animal as his hand is raised in victory.
Dempsey KO4 Bowe
Dempsey KO2 Foreman
Dempsey KO3 Lewis
Dempsey KO1 Ruddock
Dempsey KO1 Morrison

[RubenSonny]

Willard was as good as Lewis make no mistake about that, Rid**** Bowe is by far the most skilled Big Man ever to fight in the ring yet Dempsey loved fighting behemoths like these.. Fred Fulton, Willard, Carl Morris, Bill Tate was all similar in size to Foreman, Bowe & Lewis yet Dempsey "chopped them down" in the opening round... Lewis was excellent at beating guys who was as tall as himself yet struggled with fighters who was under 6ft 2ins with McCall & Rahman both KOing him and he struggled with Ocassio, Butler, Billups, Mercer as well as taking 8rds to beat a shell of Mike Tyson who was not even fighting back... Foreman would be the toughest fight by far for Dempsey as George excelled against smaller fighters who "bobbed & weaved" yet Dempsey could box exceptionally good, he was able to out-box master boxer Tommy Gibbons, i see George coming at Dempsey like he did Frazier with Dempsey looking to avoid the sledgehammers and pouncing like a wildcat when the opening appeared, the end would come towards the end of round 2 with Dempsey having climbed off the floor to attack Foreman (similar to Holyfield v Foreman rd8 - 16 punch salvo) with George sprawled out for the count and Dempsey looking like a Wild-Animal as his hand is raised in victory.
Dempsey KO4 Bowe
Dempsey KO2 Foreman
Dempsey KO3 Lewis
Dempsey KO1 Ruddock
Dempsey KO1 Morrison

Stopped reading there, there is no way your gonna be able to justify that.

[sonnyboyx2]

Stopped reading there, there is no way your gonna be able to justify that.

it is quite easy for me to justify that statement as i understand the history of this sport unlike yourself who knows absolutely nothing about boxing history so here goes let me educate you on a couple of things you did not know.

Beating Jack Johnson out does anything Lewis achieved...
Fighting 26rds in 100* heat out does anything Lewis did..
Beating Floyd Johnson as good as any victory of Lewis...
Willard able to take a tremendous amount of punishment and fight back unlike Lewis who was poleaxed twice by mediocre journeymen with neither journeyman ever able to KO an opponent in a similar fashion before or after their victory over Lewis...
Willard punched hard enough to Kill an opponent as well as hit opponents and lifted them off the canvas.

Lets here your side now.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE=sonnyboyx2;9944206]

Beating Jack Johnson out does anything Lewis achieved...

Johnson was well past his best and easily winning the fight till running out of gas. Its comparable to Lewis ko'ing Tyson.

Fighting 26rds in 100* heat out does anything Lewis did..

I don't know how you can use this against Lewis since there was an entirely different set of circumstances for longer distanced fights.

Beating Floyd Johnson as good as any victory of Lewis...

Holyfield

Willard able to take a tremendous amount of punishment and fight back unlike Lewis who was poleaxed twice by mediocre journeymen with neither journeyman ever able to KO an opponent in a similar fashion before or after their victory over Lewis...

Lewis fought back gamely and beat Mercer who dished out plenty of punishment. Willard was also ko'd by Firpo who really has nothing in his resume to be rated and higher than Rahman.

Willard punched hard enough to Kill an opponent as well as hit opponents and lifted them off the canvas.

Lets not make this sound like some extraordinaire super human feat my friend. If you're going to use this lets not forget the lax medical testing of the day allowing fighters to enter the ring with previous head injuries and or concussion. We also have to take into account the size of the gloves, and I would bet they weren't fighting on a padded surface to protect them when being dropped.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

JAB, Willard was as past-it when Firpo knocked him out as Tyson was when Lewis did him in, so fair's fair.

I do think Willard was better than history recalls for the most part, & I do think his walking punching bag reputation (in some quarters) is actually rather silly, but I wouldn't class him as the equal of Lewis.

I would say he was just as good as someone like Vitali Klitschko however, & an awful lot of people would sn!gger, wrongly in my view, at that.

[sonnyboyx2]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;9944229]

Johnson was well past his best and easily winning the fight till running out of gas. Its comparable to Lewis ko'ing Tyson.



I don't know how you can use this against Lewis since there was an entirely different set of circumstances for longer distanced fights.


Holyfield



Lewis fought back gamely and beat Mercer who dished out plenty of punishment. Willard was also ko'd by Firpo who really has nothing in his resume to be rated and higher than Rahman.


Lets not make this sound like some extraordinaire super human feat my friend. If you're going to use this lets not forget the lax medical testing of the day allowing fighters to enter the ring with previous head injuries and or concussion. We also have to take into account the size of the gloves, and I would bet they weren't fighting on a padded surface to protect them when being dropped.

Willard vs Johnson was nothing like Lewis vs Tyson... Johnson was Heavyweight Champion Tyson was completely SHOT.

Willard fought for 26rds in 100* heat.. Lewis was knackered by the 9th round against a "Shot" Tony Tucker.. Lewis was always gassed-out in most of his fights by the mid-rounds.

Holyfield was well past it when Lewis fought him to a draw and a decision win yet the decision win was very controversial... Floyd Johnson who Willard beat was in his prime.

Ray Mercer was beaten by Old Larry Holmes, Jesse Ferguson & coming into the Lewis fight off the back of a hammering from Holyfield.. so give us a break.

i can go along with your opinion of the "Lax medical opinion of the day" back in the early part of the century and the same applies today in that Lennox Lewis has NEVER been tested for anabolic steroid abuse yet there is an opinion by some that Lewis was a steroid abuser.

Let us not once again turn this subject into a Lennox Lewis argument by his supporters... it is now getting to the stage on this forum where if any member posts an opinion that they feel some past ATG beats Lewis then the thread is immediately turned upside-down and the Lewis fanboys come out to defend their hero and no matter how much evidence is placed before them that evidence is rubbished to the point of hilarity... Yet they never ever produce evidence to contradict the argument, it's as if all boxing followers have to toe-the-line when it comes to Lewis because his greatness is carved-in-stone and all other Heavyweight Champions careers and resumes can be called, ridiculed & rubbished without fear of response.

[BigStereotype]

Willard was as good as Lewis make no mistake about that, Rid**** Bowe is by far the most skilled Big Man ever to fight in the ring yet Dempsey loved fighting behemoths like these.. Fred Fulton, Willard, Carl Morris, Bill Tate was all similar in size to Foreman, Bowe & Lewis yet Dempsey "chopped them down" in the opening round... Lewis was excellent at beating guys who was as tall as himself yet struggled with fighters who was under 6ft 2ins with McCall & Rahman both KOing him and he struggled with Ocassio, Butler, Billups, Mercer as well as taking 8rds to beat a shell of Mike Tyson who was not even fighting back... Foreman would be the toughest fight by far for Dempsey as George excelled against smaller fighters who "bobbed & weaved" yet Dempsey could box exceptionally good, he was able to out-box master boxer Tommy Gibbons, i see George coming at Dempsey like he did Frazier with Dempsey looking to avoid the sledgehammers and pouncing like a wildcat when the opening appeared, the end would come towards the end of round 2 with Dempsey having climbed off the floor to attack Foreman (similar to Holyfield v Foreman rd8 - 16 punch salvo) with George sprawled out for the count and Dempsey looking like a Wild-Animal as his hand is raised in victory.
Dempsey KO4 Bowe
Dempsey KO2 Foreman
Dempsey KO3 Lewis
Dempsey KO1 Ruddock
Dempsey KO1 Morrison

So does anybody in history have any chance at going the distance with Dempsey? Let alone beating him...Demspey KO-30 Superman

[sonnyboyx2]

So does anybody in history have any chance at going the distance with Dempsey? Let alone beating him...Demspey KO-30 Superman

yes .. fighters who have movement like Ali & Tunney