Jack Dempsey vs Lennox Lewis.

[CarlosG815]

I'm so sorry, I really thought I knew something about boxing but I clearly don't.

I stand corrected on Lewis because I never knew the facts but now I do.

Lewis wasn't very good FACT - because you say so
Lewis fought washed up bums and D rated fighters and never fought a top contender in his prime FACT - because you say so
Lewis is the only supposed 'great' champion to be put to sleep by a single punch early in a fight FACT - because you say so

You come on man get real.

I have no problem with Dempsey being in your top 5 or with you picking Dempsey to beat Lewis, do you not understand what i'm getting at.

Have you ever climbed through the ropes?

How can you claim to be a historian or even a fan of the sport when you say you have NO RESPECT for Lewis as a fighter because of the FACTS you've listed. Does Lewis get any respect whatsoever for anything he's done in the ring ever.

Grow up and put the hatred aside and give me some real reasons as to why Dempsey would destroy Lewis so easily. Because you have given me nothing son.

I bolded your last paragraph because that sums up everything. You have based this on watching a 100 year old highlight reel of Dempsey knocking people out and seen everything he does as great and then compared it to modern day footage of Lewis getting knocked out (a fighter you admit to having no respect for either as a fighter or a person) and then you come up with 5 because in your little head Dempsey is so high up on this pedestal that there is no way possible for him to lose against such an awful fighter as Lewis.

That's my FUCKING problem here.

So am I wasting my time talking to some idiot that will only ever see it that way. (FACT)

Or am I talking to a knowledgable fan that can tell me why and how Dempsey should try and go about beating Lewis. What are Dempseys best chances of victory, what are his weaknesses and what problems is Lewis going to pose for Dempsey.

These all great champions we are talking about, even though there are some we love and some we love to hate they get my respect and any of the greats is capable of beating any other great on any given night.

Seriously if you have no respect for Lewis as a fighter or any other great for that matter then you need to back up and keep going until you reach NSB and don't come back son.

Wrong again, I have seen every bit of film available on Dempsey and I have also read several books on Dempsey. I have studied him on film and in writing and have also read many articles on him by people who have watched his career live.

I am basing it on "a highlight reel?" Why? Because you say so? You are clearly out of your element in this thread, so why don't you just go away?

Now you say "Because I said so." with Lewis level of competition. Now I already have you pegged as somebody who is clueless, so if I ask who he beat, I'm sure you would say "Tyson, Tua, Golota, Ruddock, etc.." and not have the knowledge to know that those guys were hack job flukes and washed up by the time they got to Lennox, so there is no reason to even debate with you. His best win is Vitali Klitschko. Other wins were over flunks and every big name he beat was SHOT. If you disagree, fine, but that is how I see it. You are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion to me means nothing.

And haven't I given my reason as to how Dempsey would destroy him? Dempsey had some of the best footwork I have ever seen, even to this day with modern knowledge and techniques and advances in training. Dempsey had some of the best head movement and had perfected the art of bobbing and weaving. It's my opinion that speed is the most important asset a fighter can have. Add to it being elusive (footwork), hard to hit (bobbing and weaving), lots of pressure (who really got in close better than Dempsey?), and crushing punching power. Not to mention Jack is known as one of the most ferocious fighters of all time. He had a killer instinct that Lewis never did. Because of those reasons, I believe he makes light work of a phony like Lennox Lewis. Jack was the real deal. Lewis was just a really well managed boxer who got exposed twice early on by journeyman and sparring partners.

Now list your reasons as to why Lennox wins. Let me guess? "Too big, too strong?"

[Canes Ghost]

Wrong again, I have seen every bit of film available on Dempsey and I have also read several books on Dempsey. I have studied him on film and in writing and have also read many articles on him by people who have watched his career live.

I am basing it on "a highlight reel?" Why? Because you say so? You are clearly out of your element in this thread, so why don't you just go away?

Now you say "Because I said so." with Lewis level of competition. Now I already have you pegged as somebody who is clueless, so if I ask who he beat, I'm sure you would say "Tyson, Tua, Golota, Ruddock, etc.." and not have the knowledge to know that those guys were hack job flukes and washed up by the time they got to Lennox, so there is no reason to even debate with you. His best win is Vitali Klitschko. Other wins were over flunks and every big name he beat was SHOT. If you disagree, fine, but that is how I see it. You are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion to me means nothing.

And haven't I given my reason as to how Dempsey would destroy him? Dempsey had some of the best footwork I have ever seen, even to this day with modern knowledge and techniques and advances in training. Dempsey had some of the best head movement and had perfected the art of bobbing and weaving. It's my opinion that speed is the most important asset a fighter can have. Add to it being elusive (footwork), hard to hit (bobbing and weaving), lots of pressure (who really got in close better than Dempsey?), and crushing punching power. Not to mention Jack is known as one of the most ferocious fighters of all time. He had a killer instinct that Lewis never did. Because of those reasons, I believe he makes light work of a phony like Lennox Lewis. Jack was the real deal. Lewis was just a really well managed boxer who got exposed twice early on by journeyman and sparring partners.

Now list your reasons as to why Lennox wins. Let me guess? "Too big, too strong?"

I already gave my assesment on how I see things going. You should of read my follow up post.

[CarlosG815]

Have to agree and I think Lewis' speed is deceptive. Not saying he's quicker because clearly he isn't, he's quicker than you think though.

For me Lewis can't trade with Dempsey that much is obvious. If he gets hit by Dempsey especially if he's coming forward himself then it's goodnight vienna.

Lewis can be knocked out but doesn't mean he has a bad chin, he's more than proved that against harder punchers.

Lewis needs to be really focused right from the off and let Dempsey chase him. I think Lewis has enough guile and good enough foot work to keep away and get Dempsey off balance. He can earn Dempseys respect early by keeping him at bay with his long jab and quick right. Dempsey wouldn't expect Lewis to be as quick as he is for such a big man and Lewis' power will be enough to just slow Dempsey down a bit and think before rushing in.

Eventually I see Lewis landing more as Dempsey is less and less reluctant to go charging in. (Tunney did it twice and although Lewis isn't as cute or as tough as Tunney his power will have a bigger impact) I see Lewis winning a UD or by late stoppage but knowing how careful Lewis could be, the UD is more likely unless Dempsey was clearly ready to go otherwise Lewis wouldn't risk it.

If Lewis can't get Dempseys respect then he isn't going to slow him down and if he doesn't slow him down then Lewis is going to have to fight more than he wants to. Fighting toe to toe with Mercer and Briggs is one thing but not with Dempsey. Even if Lewis' chin can take the power he hasn't got the stamina to match Dempsey.

It all hinges on Lewis being able to stay out of range and getting Dempseys respect and I think he can.

This is just awful. Instead of giving an honest analysis based on what we know of those fighters, you try to calculate a way "If Lennox can do this and that" that Lennox can win the fight. It's very far fetched to believe that Lennox would stop Jack from coming inside. Then you say that he has taken more punches from harder punchers. Rahman and McCall hit harder than Dempsey? I disagree, yet those guys knocked Lewis into the stone ages.

You then compare Lewis to Tunney? Your credibility is gone. Tunney was fast, slick, could stick and move. Lewis would need a good jab to even have a shot, which he did not. Lennox Lewis had one of the worst jabs I have ever seen from a big guy. Compare his jab to Holmes, Bowe, Douglas, or any other great fighter and you will see that his jab lacks everything a great jab has.

You seem to be the one putting Lennox on a pedestal and you are trying to find reasons to justify him beating Jack and you are stretching those reasons so far that they become laughable. I'm not saying I know everything and what I say is a fact but how can you honestly knock somebody for saying Dempsey would beat Lennox Lewis? Are you playing devils advocate or do you honestly believe what you are saying?

[Wild Blue Yonda]

You're a great addition to this forum. I'm glad you're here, you said it all.

That's much appreciated.

[Canes Ghost]

This is just awful. Instead of giving an honest analysis based on what we know of those fighters, you try to calculate a way "If Lennox can do this and that" that Lennox can win the fight. It's very far fetched to believe that Lennox would stop Jack from coming inside. Then you say that he has taken more punches from harder punchers. Rahman and McCall hit harder than Dempsey? I disagree, yet those guys knocked Lewis into the stone ages.

It was an honest assesment you fool, I was trying to put accross how each fighter could win the fight. How is that not honest. I can make cases for both to win and lose. And you are ignorant because you twist what I say. I said Lewis has been knocked out but has proved his chin by taking punches from harder punchers than them, which he has Tua,Ruddock,Tyson,Morrison,Mercer and so on. But the ignorant **** you are twists it to say that I think McCall and Rahman hit harder than Dempsey which is ridiculous.

You then compare Lewis to Tunney? Your credibility is gone. Tunney was fast, slick, could stick and move. Lewis would need a good jab to even have a shot, which he did not. Lennox Lewis had one of the worst jabs I have ever seen from a big guy. Compare his jab to Holmes, Bowe, Douglas, or any other great fighter and you will see that his jab lacks everything a great jab has.

You seem to be the one putting Lennox on a pedestal and you are trying to find reasons to justify him beating Jack and you are stretching those reasons so far that they become laughable. I'm not saying I know everything and what I say is a fact but how can you honestly knock somebody for saying Dempsey would beat Lennox Lewis? Are you playing devils advocate or do you honestly believe what you are saying?

My credibility will always be here son, you haven't gained any yet. So you are telling me that Lewis had a bad jab, couldn't stick and move, had no footwork, a glass chin, no defense and yet still he achieved so much. If Lewis really was that bad then even a shot Tyson or any other fighter should have been able to beat him.

Lennox was a very clever boxer that didn't do any one thing brilliantly but did everything well. He could do it all and certainly had enough talent and ability to give Dempsey the hardest fight of his life. Dempsey knows only one way and if that doesn't work he's screwed, same goes for Tyson but at least Dempsey had heart and wouldn't give up like Tyson did whenever he came up against someone he couldn't blow away.

[CarlosG815]

It was an honest assesment you fool, I was trying to put accross how each fighter could win the fight. How is that not honest. I can make cases for both to win and lose. And you are obviously ****** or ignorant because you twist what I say. I said Lewis has been knocked out but has proved his chin by taking punches from harder punchers than them, which he has Tua,Ruddock,Tyson,Morrison,Mercer and so on. But the ignorant **** you are twists it to say that I think McCall and Rahman hit harder than Dempsey which is ridiculous.



My credibility will always be here son, you haven't gained any yet. So you are telling me that Lewis had a bad jab, couldn't stick and move, had no footwork, a glass chin, no defense and yet still he achieved so much. If Lewis really was that bad then even a shot Tyson or any other fighter should have been able to beat him.

Lennox was a very clever boxer that didn't do any one thing brilliantly but did everything well. He could do it all and certainly had enough talent and ability to give Dempsey the hardest fight of his life. Dempsey knows only one way and if that doesn't work he's screwed, same goes for Tyson but at least Dempsey had heart and wouldn't give up like Tyson did whenever he came up against someone he couldn't blow away.

This tells me all I need to know about you. Just as I thought, just a clueless kid. Wish I could say it was nice debating you ya, Jr, but it was like talking to an idiot about anything. Pointless.

Why don't you try watching some fights and reading some books. If you don't want to watch fight film and read then why bother even talking about fighters you aren't willing to take the time to learn about? It's very obvious that you really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to any of the fighters you have mentioned in this thread.

[Canes Ghost]

This tells me all I need to know about you. Just as I thought, just a clueless kid. Wish I could say it was nice debating you ya, Jr, but it was like talking to an idiot about anything. Pointless.

Why don't you try watching some fights and reading some books. If you don't want to watch fight film and read then why bother even talking about fighters you aren't willing to take the time to learn about? It's very obvious that you really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to any of the fighters you have mentioned in this thread.

I've forgotten more than you'll ever know son. Judging by the amount of posts you've had and your rep it seems i'm not the only one that thinks you haven't got a clue. Now run along to NSB and you discuss boxing there with all the knowledgable posters. You don't belong in here.

[CarlosG815]

I've forgotten more than you'll ever know son. Judging by the amount of posts you've had and your rep it seems i'm not the only one that thinks you haven't got a clue. Now run along to NSB and you discuss boxing there with all the knowledgable posters. You don't belong in here.

Some Pinoys were talking about Manny Pacquiao and degrading other fighters so I put up 2 video's of Pacquiao getting knocked out, and video of him getting his ass kicked by Erik Morales.

Somebody started a thread in Pinoy Lang and linked to that thread. I couldn't read the thread, as it was in tagalog, but I saw my name and I can only guess that he said to red K me. So I got hit by every Pinoy on this forum for the most part. Some with 20+k. I have gotten far more green K from respectable posters than red K.

Not that it matters, but I think that's important to point out if you want to bring up K. But judging by how you rate fighters, you probably wouldn't take that into account, and the red is all that matters. You really are a jackass all across the board, no matter what it comes to, aren't you? Why are you in this section and you keep talking about NSB when you take everything at a face value? "Lennox beat everyone he ever faced, he accomplished this, he's great, blah blah" "He's red, he must be a jackass" but you know nothing about the happenings behind anything. You take everything at a face value and that is what makes you a moron.

[Celtic_Warrior]

I would agree if we were talking about an average big man here, we are not.

Was Dempsey faster than Lewis, yes but did he have the style to get past his massive reach advantage (7") enough to score enough, I dont think so therefore Lewis'e additional strength would come into play. Plus in the clinches the weight advantage would be a huge help.

I agree with this. Both fighters were of quality but the additional size, strength and reach would point to me that Lewis would be the victor.

[joseph5620]

Dempsey has the better resume, & I would favour him against Lewis outright, though not by much. Maybe 55-45, head-to-head, in Dempsey's favour. That's enough for him to clinch a higher all-time ranking. Something like Dempsey 8th, Lewis 10th or 11th all-time for the division, to me, sounds about right.

I don't see anyone on Dempsey's ledger a prime Lewis wouldn't be favourite against, & the same holds true in reverse.

No he doesn't.