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Originally posted by Great John L
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Realistically, Wills and Jeanette would have no chance against Jack. Wills was too big and slow, the fighters Dempsey preyed on. Langford said Jack woulkd win had they fought. Jeanette had a disputed dicision with Carpentier, Sam Langford had lost to Fred Fulton and admitted Jack was the greatest fighter, Greb would not realistically be expected to beat Jack. He's too small and too light.
A sparring session when Greb had the advantage hardly means a victory. Many smaller fighters could outbox big ones, but you just can't realistically expect them to win. Sugar Ray Leonard would box circles around Marciano, Willie Pep would move and evade Jack, and Sugar Ray Robinson could move around and outbox Sullivan, Jeffries, etc . But can you truly expect them to win? Hell no. That's why they have different weight divisions. The public clearly didn't view Greb as a serious threat to Jack's dominance.
Willie Meehan fights were four rounders only. Aside from the fact that several were draws, and Jack won some as well, judging the first for rounds is hardly accurate. Rocky would have lost to Walcott, Ali would have beat Frazier in FOTC, Moorer would have beat Foreman, etc.
Jack never "ducked" anybody. That's junk. You can't expect Jack to fight somebody when no promoter will do it, specifically Rickard, Jack's main promoter. Dempsey frequently destroyed some of the ebst black fighters around in sparring. Even Godfrey, who had fought Wills in tough fights.
Whether he "fouled" Sharkey is debateable. Tunney and others such as Jim Corbett said the punches were fair. It depends on the angle you look at the films Jack was old anyway so it's also less relevant. Either way Jack KO'ed Sharkey.
The Tunney fights are hardly relevant to Jack's fighting ability as Tunney had been fighting regularly while Jack had just come back 3 years off and they were the two last fights of Jack's career. Historians and fight crowds at the time were virtually unanimous in saying young Jack would beat Tunney. Have you ever seen Tunney in top 5 ATG heavyweight lists in the 1950s and 1960s? No, every historian was unanimous in naming prime Jack the best heavyweight. Granted that was years ago, it still shows how Tunney was viewed next to a Prime Jack Dempsey.
Miske was hardly suffering and a shell when Jack fought him. Miske went on to fight and have a very successful record years after the Demspey fight, and Jack had already beaten him several times prior to becomng champion.
Ko'd by Flynn is a moot point. jack most likely threw the fight, as even his wife said he did at the time and beat Flynn in a rematch in one round the next year, so the Flynn point is irrelevant to Jack's true worth. Firpo didn't need to have skills against Jack. It was a slugfest and size and power were needed and Firpo was still compeltely dominated. It wasn't life or death at all. Not even close. Jack knocking down Firpo 11 times for a 2 round KO while Firpo's only real good moment came in briefly knocking a leaning back Dempsey out of the ring is hardly a competitive fight.
Willard was not skilless. He was in great shape and a few years back beat Jack Johnson. Though Johnson was old, it was still an impressive feat. Willard 58 pounds heavier and much taller and Jack showed truly great skill. Jack ahd very sublte skills and techniques many weren't aware of when watching his fights. He wrote several guidebooks on boxing that are still very good today.
A sparring session when Greb had the advantage hardly means a victory. Many smaller fighters could outbox big ones, but you just can't realistically expect them to win. Sugar Ray Leonard would box circles around Marciano, Willie Pep would move and evade Jack, and Sugar Ray Robinson could move around and outbox Sullivan, Jeffries, etc . But can you truly expect them to win? Hell no. That's why they have different weight divisions. The public clearly didn't view Greb as a serious threat to Jack's dominance.
Willie Meehan fights were four rounders only. Aside from the fact that several were draws, and Jack won some as well, judging the first for rounds is hardly accurate. Rocky would have lost to Walcott, Ali would have beat Frazier in FOTC, Moorer would have beat Foreman, etc.
Jack never "ducked" anybody. That's junk. You can't expect Jack to fight somebody when no promoter will do it, specifically Rickard, Jack's main promoter. Dempsey frequently destroyed some of the ebst black fighters around in sparring. Even Godfrey, who had fought Wills in tough fights.
Whether he "fouled" Sharkey is debateable. Tunney and others such as Jim Corbett said the punches were fair. It depends on the angle you look at the films Jack was old anyway so it's also less relevant. Either way Jack KO'ed Sharkey.
The Tunney fights are hardly relevant to Jack's fighting ability as Tunney had been fighting regularly while Jack had just come back 3 years off and they were the two last fights of Jack's career. Historians and fight crowds at the time were virtually unanimous in saying young Jack would beat Tunney. Have you ever seen Tunney in top 5 ATG heavyweight lists in the 1950s and 1960s? No, every historian was unanimous in naming prime Jack the best heavyweight. Granted that was years ago, it still shows how Tunney was viewed next to a Prime Jack Dempsey.
Miske was hardly suffering and a shell when Jack fought him. Miske went on to fight and have a very successful record years after the Demspey fight, and Jack had already beaten him several times prior to becomng champion.
Ko'd by Flynn is a moot point. jack most likely threw the fight, as even his wife said he did at the time and beat Flynn in a rematch in one round the next year, so the Flynn point is irrelevant to Jack's true worth. Firpo didn't need to have skills against Jack. It was a slugfest and size and power were needed and Firpo was still compeltely dominated. It wasn't life or death at all. Not even close. Jack knocking down Firpo 11 times for a 2 round KO while Firpo's only real good moment came in briefly knocking a leaning back Dempsey out of the ring is hardly a competitive fight.
Willard was not skilless. He was in great shape and a few years back beat Jack Johnson. Though Johnson was old, it was still an impressive feat. Willard 58 pounds heavier and much taller and Jack showed truly great skill. Jack ahd very sublte skills and techniques many weren't aware of when watching his fights. He wrote several guidebooks on boxing that are still very good today.
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