Lennox Lewis ''Mike Tyson Was A One Dimensional Boxer''

[Toney616]

read the final sentence of the link

The hall in Canastota, N.Y., will hold their induction weekend from June 11-14, 2009.

Lewis was inducted into Canada's Sports Hall of Fame on Nov. 5.

lmao

[Kid McCoy]

Once again not a single question i have put to you have you answered so i will ask again.

Pot, kettle, black. Again.

1/. Do you agree Lewis was stripped of the IBF & WBA titles for refusing to fight their No1 contenders John Ruiz & Chris Byrd

Yes and he took bigger, tougher fights instead.

2/. Does the link below claim that the WBA told Lewis he could keep the WBA title as long as he fought Ruiz after fighting Grant?

It doesn't. It says "reportedly" and you can find loads of other links stating that Lewis would be stripped for meeting Grant regardless, which is what ultimately happened.

3/. Where was the Klitschko Brothers in your Ring Ratings

Not in the top ten.

4/. Why do you think the Ring ratings are superior to WBA, WBC & IBF ratings?

Generally they're more reliable and less ludicrous than some of the weird ratings the ABCs come up with, like John Ruiz as the #1 contender.

5/. Was Lewis lying when claiming he "Avoided" Moorer ?

Do you have a video of Lewis saying that? I'd rather see it for myself than accept your interpretation.

6/. Are you claiming Bowe as undisputed champion should have given Lewis a 50/50 share of a fight?

Bowe was not undisputed when Lewis was a champion too. Lewis was willing to take the shorter end of the purse in 93, just not the joke split Bowe was offering.

7/. if yes to the above who has Lewis ever given a 50/50 split to in a title defence

Holyfield?

8/. Are you claiming Tucker, Jackson, Bruno & McCall was the toughest fights available between 93-94 for Lewis

Yes, in light of the fact that Foreman, Bowe and Moorer weren't interested, Tyson was in prison and the Holy fight kept getting derailed.

9/. Are you claiming Witherspoon was "unranked during 93-96

Nope, he just wasn't a big factor in the division. His only win over any kind of contender in the 90s was Gonzalez.

10/. Are you saying Golota was not sedated in the dressing room minutes before his fight with Lewis?

Golota was supposedly given a painkiller for his knee prior to the fight, although Golota's camp only mentioned it days later.

11/. Are you saying Lewis is British other than Canadian even tho he has never lived in Britain since he was 11yrs of age and is a nationalized Canadian who represented his country in the Olympic games and has been inducted into the Canadian boxing hall of fame and has lived and still lives there to this very day.. as well as Lewis easily being eligable to represent Britain at those 2 Olympic games he represented Canada

Actually Lewis mostly lives in Jamaica now. Maybe you should be calling him Jamaica's heavyweight champion. He was also born and raised in London and yes he has lived in Britain since then. He holds British citizenship and went out of his way to represent Britain, so why not?

12/. What top rated fighters did Lennox Lewis face during his career who was "At The Top of their Game"

What's the point? Ruddock ("damaged goods"), Mercer ("robbed"), Klitschko ("unfortunate"), Tua ("fattest challenger ever"), Holyfield ("old and shot"), Golota ("drugged") and so on.


1. Do you think wins over Thomas Williams, Fernely Feliz, Mario Cawley and Jerry Ballard made John Ruiz worthy of being #1 contender?
2. Do you agree that Bowe and Tyson both vacated their title when Lewis was the #1 contender?
3. Do you think being champion ten years previously and recent wins against Jesse Ferguson, Danny Sutton, Percell Davis, Danny Stonewalker and Barry Forbes made Dokes a worthy challenger?
4. Which Ruiz win prior to 2000 was bigger than Grant's win over Golota?
5. Do you think Moorer saying he had no interest in unifying the title counts as Lewis ducking him?
6. Do you think a 90-10 purse split was a fair offer from Bowe to Lewis?
7. Do you think demanding Lewis vacate his WBC belt before fighting Bowe was a reasonable request?
8. Do you agree it's laughable to criticize Lewis for fighting old men and then claim he should have fought Witherspoon, Foreman, Holmes and Smith?
9. Do you agree it's laughable to criticize Lewis for fighting journeymen and then say he should have fought Lamon Brewster and Herbie Hide?
10. Do you think Murad Muhammad saying "Lewis accepted $25million to face Jones" counts as Lewis ducking Jones?
11. Do you regard Joe Bugner as a Hungarian or Australian?
12. Why didn't Bowe fight Tyson, Foreman, Holmes, Mercer, Morrison, Ruddock, McCall, Witherspoon or Moorer?
13. Do you think Lewis was "past prime" at 36?

[sonnyboyx2]

Pot, kettle, black. Again.



Yes and he took bigger, tougher fights instead.



It doesn't. It says "reportedly" and you can find loads of other links stating that Lewis would be stripped for meeting Grant regardless, which is what ultimately happened.



Not in the top ten.



Generally they're more reliable and less ludicrous than some of the weird ratings the ABCs come up with, like John Ruiz as the #1 contender.



Do you have a video of Lewis saying that? I'd rather see it for myself than accept your interpretation.



Bowe was not undisputed when Lewis was a champion too. Lewis was willing to take the shorter end of the purse in 93, just not the joke split Bowe was offering.



Holyfield?



Yes, in light of the fact that Foreman, Bowe and Moorer weren't interested, Tyson was in prison and the Holy fight kept getting derailed.



Nope, he just wasn't a big factor in the division. His only win over any kind of contender in the 90s was Gonzalez.



Golota was supposedly given a painkiller for his knee prior to the fight, although Golota's camp only mentioned it days later.



Actually Lewis mostly lives in Jamaica now. Maybe you should be calling him Jamaica's heavyweight champion. He was also born and raised in London and yes he has lived in Britain since then. He holds British citizenship and went out of his way to represent Britain, so why not?



What's the point? Ruddock ("damaged goods"), Mercer ("robbed"), Klitschko ("unfortunate"), Tua ("fattest challenger ever"), Holyfield ("old and shot"), Golota ("drugged") and so on.


1. Do you think wins over Thomas Williams, Fernely Feliz, Mario Cawley and Jerry Ballard made John Ruiz worthy of being #1 contender?
2. Do you agree that Bowe and Tyson both vacated their title when Lewis was the #1 contender?
3. Do you think being champion ten years previously and recent wins against Jesse Ferguson, Danny Sutton, Percell Davis, Danny Stonewalker and Barry Forbes made Dokes a worthy challenger?
4. Which Ruiz win prior to 2000 was bigger than Grant's win over Golota?
5. Do you think Moorer saying he had no interest in unifying the title counts as Lewis ducking him?
6. Do you think a 90-10 purse split was a fair offer from Bowe to Lewis?
7. Do you think demanding Lewis vacate his WBC belt before fighting Bowe was a reasonable request?
8. Do you agree it's laughable to criticize Lewis for fighting old men and then claim he should have fought Witherspoon, Foreman, Holmes and Smith?
9. Do you agree it's laughable to criticize Lewis for fighting journeymen and then say he should have fought Lamon Brewster and Herbie Hide?
10. Do you think Murad Muhammad saying "Lewis accepted $25million to face Jones" counts as Lewis ducking Jones?
11. Do you regard Joe Bugner as a Hungarian or Australian?
12. Why didn't Bowe fight Tyson, Foreman, Holmes, Mercer, Morrison, Ruddock, McCall, Witherspoon or Moorer?
13. Do you think Lewis was "past prime" at 36?

ha ha ha.. typical... your funny McCoy and like i have said many times about you you just make things up as you go along so as to suit your agenda yet in your heart you know everything i have said is correct.. lets look at this post of yours:

1/. yes you now agree Lewis was stripped of his titles for refusing to fight the No1 contenders... yet you claim he fought 2 tougher opponents than Ruiz & Byrd in Grant & Botha....

2/. You deny this link as evidence saying it say's "reportedly"...yet the word reportedly means it is being reported and the link explains what the WBA said to Lewis & his promoter..
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-4529125.html

3/. The Klitschko brothers both held a version of the Heavyweight Title in 2000 yet your ratings are superior you claim.... again your having a laugh
1. Lennox Lewis
2. Evander Holyfield
3. Michael Grant
4. David Tua
5. Mike Tyson
6. Andrew Golota
7. Oleg Maskaev
8. Chris Byrd
9. David Izon
10. Derrick Jefferson

4/. you claim those ratings are reliable and not ludicrous and slate John Ruiz for being the WBA No1 contender, yet Ruiz waited nearly 2yrs as No1 contender for Lewis to fight him then went on to be the heavyweight champion of the world.

5/. The reason you have asked to see the video of Lewis saying he avoided Moorer is because you know it has recently been taken off youtube.. but their is plenty who did see it infact a thread was started about Lewis claiming he avoided Moorer... nice try McCoy

6/. Bowe was undisputed Heavyweight champion of the world - The man who beat the man!... for you to claim otherwise is a clear sign of nuthuggery for Lewis

7/. When did Lewis ever give Holyfield a 50/50 split?.. provide some evidence otherwise again i will put it down to your vivid imagination... Holyfield was the champion

8/. Again you claim Bowe & Moorer was not interested in fighting Lewis, yet Lewis has just adsmitted on video that he avoided Moorer and here is a link for Bowe
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...ewman-dan-duva

9/. Witherspoon was ranked from 94-96 beating Jorge Louis Gonzalez who had beaten Lewis 3 times in the amateur ranks and who was top 10 rated..

10/. Golota given painkiller for his knee.... laugh of the century.. Golota took a panic attack and was injected with lydocaine

11/. Lewis has never lived in Jamaica he has always and still does live in Canada where he and his wife and children are all Canadian citizens. Lewis has lived there for nearly 40yrs..... you claim he went out of his way to represent Britain in the 1984 & 1988 Olympics... who did he lose-out to from Britain?... show evidence

12/. Just as i expected, you cannot name a single fighter who Lewis fought who was at the "Top of there Game"..lets look at your choices.

Ruddock - never landed a single punch in the fight due to him being damaged goods and was way past his best.

Tua - weighed 250lbs so nowhere near at the top of his game.

Golota - yes like you say, on tranquilizer

Holyfield - nowhere near the top of his game and for you to claim he was is a desperate claim.

Klitschko - again i agree with you that Vitali was unfortunate.

------------------------------------
your questions to me answered without twisting & lying

1/. yes Ruiz was a worthy No1 contender those opponents you name had a combined record of 56-3

2/. No, Bowe & Tyson both made legit offers to Lewis who turned them down .... links below:
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...ewman-dan-duva

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0eins2DhSo

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/04/sp...l?pagewanted=1

3/. Yes Dokes was on a 10 fight win streak... Lewis fought Tyson who had been champion 12yrs previously with Tyson having only won 4 of his last 8 fights had served several prison sentences and was clearly a "SHOT" fighter

4/. Ruiz was NABF Heavyweight Champion and defended that title 6 times against upcoming young heavyweights with very good records of (19-1) (21-1) (16-1) and had beaten Tony Tucker & Jimmy Thunder... Take a look at Grant vs Golta in the link below with Golota quitting when ahead.. Grant was exposed which is why Lewis jumped at fighting him instead of Ruiz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHb-OuNFL5c

5/. Where is your evidence of Moorer saying what you claim.. i believe the Lewis video with Lewis claiming he avoided Moorer.

6/. I do not believe Bowe offered Lewis 90/10 split, i agree and believe Bowe in the link below that the offer was 75/25 and Lewis dragged his feet not wanting to face Bowe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0eins2DhSo

7/. Yes.. Lewis took the belt out of the garbage can after Bowe had told the WBC where to stick there belt when that organization threatened to strip Bowe if he did not agree terms with there No1 contender yet there No1 contender had no intension of agreeing to anything because he knew Bowe would be stripped if he dragged his feet and the reason he dragged his feet was not money it was fear as i believe Bowe would have crucified Lewis had they fought.. Lewis mediocre outings against Tucker, Jackson, Bruno & McCall proved as much.

8/. i have never critisized Lewis for fighting "OLD MEN" never... i would strongly have fancied Foreman, Holmes, Witherspoon & Smith to beat him by KO... Lewis was scheduled to fight Smith in 1992 but pulled out 3 weeks before fight night.

9/. Definately not.. Hide was a champion between 95-98 and called out Lewis on a weekly basis on British TV, Lewis held no title yet Hide was willing to fight him for his WBO title in a "Battle of Britain" which would have been a huge money-spinner... Lewis baulked... i have never known Brewster being in line for a fight with Lennox Lewis yet i did read in Boxing News 2000 that they sparred and Brewster knocked out Lewis with Lewis being unconscious for 3 minutes..

10/. off topic but yes.

11/. Aussie Joe

12/. i don't know maybe you should ask him.. Bowe did try to fight Foreman & Holmes and was lined up to fight Tyson when Tyson was released from prison yet lost his title to Holyfield in the meantime.

13/. Yes Lewis was past his prime yet Mike Tyson was 1000% physically & mentally worse than ever Lewis was.. Do i think Lewis should have fought Tyson or be given credit for beating Tyson... No

See what i mean McCoy it is not to difficult to answer questions truthfully without twisting & lying like you repeatedly do... one question for you

1/. Do you honestly believe that Lennox Lewis would have beaten Rid**** Bowe should they have fought between 93-94

[Kid McCoy]

ha ha ha.. typical... your funny McCoy and like i have said many times about you you just make things up as you go along so as to suit your agenda yet in your heart you know everything i have said is correct.. lets look at this post of yours:

Whereas you...

1/. yes you now agree Lewis was stripped of his titles for refusing to fight the No1 contenders... yet you claim he fought 2 tougher opponents than Ruiz & Byrd in Grant & Botha....

Grant and Klitschko were seen as bigger, tougher fights than Ruiz and Byrd.

2/. You deny this link as evidence saying it say's "reportedly"...yet the word reportedly means it is being reported and the link explains what the WBA said to Lewis & his promoter..

Regardless of what the WBA may have been willing to do, King intervened with legal action because he wanted Ruiz-Holy for the vacant belt and he got his way.

http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...olyfield&hl=en

3/. The Klitschko brothers both held a version of the Heavyweight Title in 2000 yet your ratings are superior you claim.... again your having a laugh

Yes, the WBO belt, which was barely on the radar back then.

4/. you claim those ratings are reliable and not ludicrous and slate John Ruiz for being the WBA No1 contender, yet Ruiz waited nearly 2yrs as No1 contender for Lewis to fight him then went on to be the heavyweight champion of the world.

More reliable and less ludicrous than the ABC ratings. Ruiz did not deserve to be anywhere near the #1 spot and that was reflected by the Ring not even ranking him top 10.

5/. The reason you have asked to see the video of Lewis saying he avoided Moorer is because you know it has recently been taken off youtube.. but their is plenty who did see it infact a thread was started about Lewis claiming he avoided Moorer... nice try McCoy

I never heard him mention Moorer on the video posted here.

6/. Bowe was undisputed Heavyweight champion of the world - The man who beat the man!... for you to claim otherwise is a clear sign of nuthuggery for Lewis

He lost that right the moment he trashed his belt to take two soft touches ahead of his #1 contender.

7/. When did Lewis ever give Holyfield a 50/50 split?.. provide some evidence otherwise again i will put it down to your vivid imagination... Holyfield was the champion

Do you think Holy, a champion in his own right, would have taken less than 50-50 against Lewis?

8/. Again you claim Bowe & Moorer was not interested in fighting Lewis, yet Lewis has just adsmitted on video that he avoided Moorer and here is a link for Bowe
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...ewman-dan-duva

And when the Lewis camp asked Newman to back up his words about that $12million offer, what happened?

http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...wis+bowe&hl=en

9/. Witherspoon was ranked from 94-96 beating Jorge Louis Gonzalez who had beaten Lewis 3 times in the amateur ranks and who was top 10 rated..

Gonzalez was never more than a fringe contender as a pro. If Lewis fought Spoon he'd be another old, shot fighter to add to your list.

10/. Golota given painkiller for his knee.... laugh of the century.. Golota took a panic attack and was injected with lydocaine

That's what Golota himself said.

11/. Lewis has never lived in Jamaica he has always and still does live in Canada where he and his wife and children are all Canadian citizens. Lewis has lived there for nearly 40yrs..... you claim he went out of his way to represent Britain in the 1984 & 1988 Olympics... who did he lose-out to from Britain?... show evidence

Yes he does. I never said he went out of his way to represent Britain at the Olympics. He did as a pro.

12/. Just as i expected, you cannot name a single fighter who Lewis fought who was at the "Top of there Game"..lets look at your choices.

We've been through it loads of times. You have a ready-made excuse for why Lewis doesn't deserve credit for any win he had. A while back someone posted a similar breakdown of Ali's career. It could have been written by you.

Ruddock did not look damaged goods in his previous two fights, Mercer was not a robbery, Tua was dangerous and well avoided, and Holy was still good enough to beat the fearsome #1 contender John Ruiz in his next fight. Klitschko was unfortunate his opponent left his face looking like he'd put it in a food blender. Sort of like saying Henry Cooper was unfortunate against Ali. Your description of Lewis-Golota is also wrong. Far from jumping on Golota at the opening bell Hagler-Hearns style, Lewis actually started cautiously. Golota didn't fold until Lewis nailed him, which was completely in-character for him.

1/. yes Ruiz was a worthy No1 contender those opponents you name had a combined record of 56-3

By beating Top Dawg Williams, Fernely Feliz, Mario Cawley and Jerry Ballard? You cannot be serious.

2/. No, Bowe & Tyson both made legit offers to Lewis who turned them down .... links below:

Yes they did ditch their belts when Lewis was the #1 contender, preferring to take easier fights.

3/. Yes Dokes was on a 10 fight win streak... Lewis fought Tyson who had been champion 12yrs previously with Tyson having only won 4 of his last 8 fights had served several prison sentences and was clearly a "SHOT" fighter

Barry Forbes (7-4-2), Jose Ribalta (32-8-1), Jesse Ferguson (18-7), Danny Sutton (28-17), Percell Davis (14-12), Danny Wofford (11-16-2), Danny Stonewalker (12-6-2), Tyrone Armstrong (5-3), John Morton (10-18). Again, you can't be serious. I'm only surprised you haven't claimed Lewis was ducking such a juggernaut!

4/. Ruiz was NABF Heavyweight Champion and defended that title 6 times against upcoming young heavyweights with very good records of (19-1) (21-1) (16-1) and had beaten Tony Tucker & Jimmy Thunder... Take a look at Grant vs Golta in the link below with Golota quitting when ahead.. Grant was exposed which is why Lewis jumped at fighting him instead of Ruiz.

The same Tucker you criticize Lewis for fighting 5 years before. Sorry but wins over a bunch of obscure journeymen don't better a win over Golota. Grant was hurt early but battled his way back into the fight, knocked Golota down late on and Golota just did his usual meltdown. NABF champion? Since when does that mean anything?

5/. Where is your evidence of Moorer saying what you claim.. i believe the Lewis video with Lewis claiming he avoided Moorer.

"It's not important for me to unify the title," he said. "I'm 35-0 with 30 k.o.'s. I'm going to make myself happy. All you do when you win is just make more money."

Moorer, who will earn as much as $5 million for his victory, said he doesn't care about facing Lennox Lewis, who holds the World Boxing Council title, although some boxing observers express skepticism about Moorer's intentions. They think he may want an easy fight against a lesser opponent before he thinks about Lewis.

Note this also:

Lewis had already signed to meet Holyfield in a unification bout in November, a bout that became moot with Holyfield's defeat.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstra...AD0894DC494D81

6/. I do not believe Bowe offered Lewis 90/10 split, i agree and believe Bowe in the link below that the offer was 75/25 and Lewis dragged his feet not wanting to face Bowe.

http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...wis+bowe&hl=en

8/. i have never critisized Lewis for fighting "OLD MEN" never... i would strongly have fancied Foreman, Holmes, Witherspoon & Smith to beat him by KO... Lewis was scheduled to fight Smith in 1992 but pulled out 3 weeks before fight night.

Really?

9/. Definately not.. Hide was a champion between 95-98 and called out Lewis on a weekly basis on British TV, Lewis held no title yet Hide was willing to fight him for his WBO title in a "Battle of Britain" which would have been a huge money-spinner... Lewis baulked... i have never known Brewster being in line for a fight with Lennox Lewis yet i did read in Boxing News 2000 that they sparred and Brewster knocked out Lewis with Lewis being unconscious for 3 minutes..

I won't bother asking if you have a link for Brewster supposedly KO'ing Lewis. Hide was a fringe contender, fighting no hopers in local venues when Lewis was unifying with Holy. Calling Lewis out means nothing. I could call Lewis out, but that doesn't mean he's ducking me if the fight doesn't happen.

13/. Yes Lewis was past his prime

Glad we agree

See what i mean McCoy it is not to difficult to answer questions truthfully without twisting & lying like you repeatedly do... one question for you

Pot, ket...ah forget it.

1/. Do you honestly believe that Lennox Lewis would have beaten Rid**** Bowe should they have fought between 93-94

I never said Lewis would have beaten him. I think it would be a competitive fight where I'd give the edge to Bowe because he peaked earlier. Lewis was better post-McCall. It would hardly be a walkover though.

[sonnyboyx2]

Whereas you...



Grant and Klitschko were seen as bigger, tougher fights than Ruiz and Byrd.



Regardless of what the WBA may have been willing to do, King intervened with legal action because he wanted Ruiz-Holy for the vacant belt and he got his way.

http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...olyfield&hl=en



Yes, the WBO belt, which was barely on the radar back then.



More reliable and less ludicrous than the ABC ratings. Ruiz did not deserve to be anywhere near the #1 spot and that was reflected by the Ring not even ranking him top 10.



I never heard him mention Moorer on the video posted here.



He lost that right the moment he trashed his belt to take two soft touches ahead of his #1 contender.



Do you think Holy, a champion in his own right, would have taken less than 50-50 against Lewis?



And when the Lewis camp asked Newman to back up his words about that $12million offer, what happened?

http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...wis+bowe&hl=en



Gonzalez was never more than a fringe contender as a pro. If Lewis fought Spoon he'd be another old, shot fighter to add to your list.



That's what Golota himself said.



Yes he does. I never said he went out of his way to represent Britain at the Olympics. He did as a pro.



We've been through it loads of times. You have a ready-made excuse for why Lewis doesn't deserve credit for any win he had. A while back someone posted a similar breakdown of Ali's career. It could have been written by you.

Ruddock did not look damaged goods in his previous two fights, Mercer was not a robbery, Tua was dangerous and well avoided, and Holy was still good enough to beat the fearsome #1 contender John Ruiz in his next fight. Klitschko was unfortunate his opponent left his face looking like he'd put it in a food blender. Sort of like saying Henry Cooper was unfortunate against Ali. Your description of Lewis-Golota is also wrong. Far from jumping on Golota at the opening bell Hagler-Hearns style, Lewis actually started cautiously. Golota didn't fold until Lewis nailed him, which was completely in-character for him.



By beating Top Dawg Williams, Fernely Feliz, Mario Cawley and Jerry Ballard? You cannot be serious.



Yes they did ditch their belts when Lewis was the #1 contender, preferring to take easier fights.



Barry Forbes (7-4-2), Jose Ribalta (32-8-1), Jesse Ferguson (18-7), Danny Sutton (28-17), Percell Davis (14-12), Danny Wofford (11-16-2), Danny Stonewalker (12-6-2), Tyrone Armstrong (5-3), John Morton (10-18). Again, you can't be serious. I'm only surprised you haven't claimed Lewis was ducking such a juggernaut!



The same Tucker you criticize Lewis for fighting 5 years before. Sorry but wins over a bunch of obscure journeymen don't better a win over Golota. Grant was hurt early but battled his way back into the fight, knocked Golota down late on and Golota just did his usual meltdown. NABF champion? Since when does that mean anything?







Note this also:



http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstra...AD0894DC494D81



http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...wis+bowe&hl=en



Really?



I won't bother asking if you have a link for Brewster supposedly KO'ing Lewis. Hide was a fringe contender, fighting no hopers in local venues when Lewis was unifying with Holy. Calling Lewis out means nothing. I could call Lewis out, but that doesn't mean he's ducking me if the fight doesn't happen.



Glad we agree



Pot, ket...ah forget it.



I never said Lewis would have beaten him. I think it would be a competitive fight where I'd give the edge to Bowe because he peaked earlier. Lewis was better post-McCall. It would hardly be a walkover though.

it is so easy for me to run through the resumes of Tua, Grant, Jackson, Akinwande, Mavrovic and trash there records for fighting nobodies just like you have with John Ruiz.. but the difference is Ruiz was very highly successful during his boxing career whereas Grant, Tua, Jackson, Akinwande was nothing but Bums.. you have a hate for John Ruiz and his achievements which you find to be nothing but garbage similar to how i see Lewis achievements with the difference being Ruiz never ducked Lewis or any other opponents unlike Lewis.

As always you contradict yourself over and over again, you said, "Grant and Klitschko were seen as bigger, tougher fights than Ruiz and Byrd."... Yet when i asked you where the Klitschko brothers was in your Ratings, you said your Ratings was "more reliable and less ludicrous than some of the weird ratings the ABCs come up with, like John Ruiz as the #1 contender.".... Yet Klitschko was not in them????

the WBO belt, which was barely on the radar back then you say... But it had been held by, Moorer, Mercer, Morrison, Hide, Bowe, Akinwande & Vitali - How many of these fighters did Lewis fight?

i will get the Lewis video for you and post it off to you so that you can keep it in your collection to remind you that Lewis ducked Moorer.

You say,"Bowe was not undisputed He lost that right the moment he trashed his belt to take two soft touches ahead of his #1 contender.".... Can i say the same about Lewis ?

Holyfield was a legitimate champion being the man who beat the man... Lewis was never a legitimate champion, he picked a belt out of the bin and lost it when getting poleaxed by a journeyman, he then fought a junkie who was straight out of a drug-rehab for a vacant belt... so no way does Lewis compare to Holyfield and Evanders achievements.

Show evidence of Golota saying the lydocaine tranquilizer injection was for a sore knee

Show evidence of Michael Moorer saying what you claim.

Why if British didn't Lewis represent Britain in the Olympic games 1984 & 88.... Lewis chose to come to Britain as a way of avoiding Mike Tyson, Rid**** Bowe & Evander Holyfield when he turned pro.

David Tua - you claim he was avoided.. who avoided him show me some evidence or it this again just a figment of your vivid imagination.

i am pleased you agree that Lennox Lewis would have been beaten by Rid**** Bowe should Lewis have agreed to fight him between 93-94... Lewis was not ****** nor was anyone in his camp ******, they seen Rid**** Bowe take the Title off a prime Evander Holyfield with him looking incredible in almost every department and his trainer Eddie Futch claiming there was better to come.. Which is why Lewis and his camp wanted nothing to do with Bowe.. The one thing i have to give Lewis and his camp credit for was the way they moved him throughout his career, avoiding every fighter who was at the top of his game and claiming everyone was afraid of Lewis.. Rid**** Bowe's argument was with the WBC not Lewis yet Lewis twisted it around to look like Bowe was ducking him which has to be admired, the same as in 1996 when Mike Tyson was trying to unify the titles and Lewis who never ever had any goal to do that made it look like Tyson was avoiding him yet fought for a vacant title against a junkie.. Even when Lewis got the decision over Holyfield in 1999 and was undisputed champion, it was meaningless to Lewis because he never defended that undisputed title, he had every belt stripped from him for refusing to fight the No1 contenders... So when looking back at the career of Lewis it is fair to say that he picked a belt out of the garbage can and lost it, fought for a vacant title against a junkie in a farcical miss-match, won the undisputed title by dubious decision then had every belt stripped from him as well as losing 2 of those belts against a journeymen by KO and regaining them from the same journeyman...so you can obviously see my reluctance in accepting Lennox Lewis as a great fighter.. my opinion of him is that he was an opportunist mediocre fighter who avoided every top fighter who was "At The Top of there Game"

[Kid McCoy]

it is so easy for me to run through the resumes of Tua, Grant, Jackson, Akinwande, Mavrovic and trash there records for fighting nobodies just like you have with John Ruiz.. but the difference is Ruiz was very highly successful during his boxing career whereas Grant, Tua, Jackson, Akinwande was nothing but Bums.. you have a hate for John Ruiz and his achievements which you find to be nothing but garbage similar to how i see Lewis achievements with the difference being Ruiz never ducked Lewis or any other opponents unlike Lewis.

Of course you can. Even the greatest of fighters can be made to look a bum by evaluating them the way you do. Hate for Ruiz? I don't recall calling him a "dog" or "reviled". I just don't rate him much as a fighter and I especially don't think he was worthy of being #1 contender in 2000.

As always you contradict yourself over and over again, you said, "Grant and Klitschko were seen as bigger, tougher fights than Ruiz and Byrd."... Yet when i asked you where the Klitschko brothers was in your Ratings, you said your Ratings was "more reliable and less ludicrous than some of the weird ratings the ABCs come up with, like John Ruiz as the #1 contender.".... Yet Klitschko was not in them????

Lewis fought Klitschko in 2003. Those ratings were from 2000.

the WBO belt, which was barely on the radar back then you say... But it had been held by, Moorer, Mercer, Morrison, Hide, Bowe, Akinwande & Vitali - How many of these fighters did Lewis fight?

Four by my count, another two wouldn't fight him and the other was a fringe contender at best. I love how Akinwande was a bum two paragraphs back but now he's a WBO titlist, so presumably he was worth a shot at Lewis after all (and I think he was a mandatory anyway). Why do you think Moorer, Mercer, Akinwande and Bowe vacated the belt?

You say,"Bowe was not undisputed He lost that right the moment he trashed his belt to take two soft touches ahead of his #1 contender.".... Can i say the same about Lewis ?

Nope. Bowe trashed his belt and fought two set-ups. Lewis took bigger, more lucrative fights instead.

Holyfield was a legitimate champion being the man who beat the man... Lewis was never a legitimate champion, he picked a belt out of the bin and lost it when getting poleaxed by a journeyman, he then fought a junkie who was straight out of a drug-rehab for a vacant belt... so no way does Lewis compare to Holyfield and Evanders achievements.

Presumably he was after beating "legitimate champion" Holyfield or have you got some excuse for that too? If you want to go by linearity then Lewis was the legitimate champion by beating Briggs who beat Foreman who beat Moorer who beat Holyfield. All the rest isn't relevant to anything I said, but any excuse to have a go at Lewis.

Show evidence of Golota saying the lydocaine tranquilizer injection was for a sore knee

Dr. Robert Katzman of West Palm Beach injected Golota's right knee with lidocaine

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...eedle__fi.html

Show evidence of Michael Moorer saying what you claim.

I already did.

Why if British didn't Lewis represent Britain in the Olympic games 1984 & 88.... Lewis chose to come to Britain as a way of avoiding Mike Tyson, Rid**** Bowe & Evander Holyfield when he turned pro.

Never heard of that before, a fighter changing nationality to duck someone. Let's ignore that Lewis did actually fight two of those and openly sought out the other. Any reason why a Canadian couldn't avoid those three?

i am pleased you agree that Lennox Lewis would have been beaten by Rid**** Bowe should Lewis have agreed to fight him between 93-94... Lewis was not ****** nor was anyone in his camp ******, they seen Rid**** Bowe take the Title off a prime Evander Holyfield with him looking incredible in almost every department and his trainer Eddie Futch claiming there was better to come.. Which is why Lewis and his camp wanted nothing to do with Bowe.. The one thing i have to give Lewis and his camp credit for was the way they moved him throughout his career, avoiding every fighter who was at the top of his game and claiming everyone was afraid of Lewis.. Rid**** Bowe's argument was with the WBC not Lewis yet Lewis twisted it around to look like Bowe was ducking him which has to be admired, the same as in 1996 when Mike Tyson was trying to unify the titles and Lewis who never ever had any goal to do that made it look like Tyson was avoiding him yet fought for a vacant title against a junkie.. Even when Lewis got the decision over Holyfield in 1999 and was undisputed champion, it was meaningless to Lewis because he never defended that undisputed title, he had every belt stripped from him for refusing to fight the No1 contenders... So when looking back at the career of Lewis it is fair to say that he picked a belt out of the garbage can and lost it, fought for a vacant title against a junkie in a farcical miss-match, won the undisputed title by dubious decision then had every belt stripped from him as well as losing 2 of those belts against a journeymen by KO and regaining them from the same journeyman...so you can obviously see my reluctance in accepting Lennox Lewis as a great fighter.. my opinion of him is that he was an opportunist mediocre fighter who avoided every top fighter who was "At The Top of there Game"

Leaving aside all the usual stuff about Lewis, I never said Bowe would have beaten him.

Now my question: why do you hate Lennox Lewis, Sonny?

[sonnyboyx2]

Of course you can. Even the greatest of fighters can be made to look a bum by evaluating them the way you do. Hate for Ruiz? I don't recall calling him a "dog" or "reviled". I just don't rate him much as a fighter and I especially don't think he was worthy of being #1 contender in 2000.



Lewis fought Klitschko in 2003. Those ratings were from 2000.



Four by my count, another two wouldn't fight him and the other was a fringe contender at best. I love how Akinwande was a bum two paragraphs back but now he's a WBO titlist, so presumably he was worth a shot at Lewis after all (and I think he was a mandatory anyway). Why do you think Moorer, Mercer, Akinwande and Bowe vacated the belt?



Nope. Bowe trashed his belt and fought two set-ups. Lewis took bigger, more lucrative fights instead.



Presumably he was after beating "legitimate champion" Holyfield or have you got some excuse for that too? If you want to go by linearity then Lewis was the legitimate champion by beating Briggs who beat Foreman who beat Moorer who beat Holyfield. All the rest isn't relevant to anything I said, but any excuse to have a go at Lewis.



Dr. Robert Katzman of West Palm Beach injected Golota's right knee with lidocaine

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...eedle__fi.html



I already did.



Never heard of that before, a fighter changing nationality to duck someone. Let's ignore that Lewis did actually fight two of those and openly sought out the other. Any reason why a Canadian couldn't avoid those three?



Leaving aside all the usual stuff about Lewis, I never said Bowe would have beaten him.

Now my question: why do you hate Lennox Lewis, Sonny?

Both Klitschko brothers held the WBO Heavyweight Title in 2000 yet neither was in the Ring ratings....

Yes Akinwande was a bum and always has been which is why Lewis fought him even tho as you claim he was No1 contender.. yet Ruiz & Byrd was also No1 contenders but Lewis wanted nothing to do with them because they was "At the Top of their Game"

So Bowe throwing one of his 3 belts in the garbage can is a crime to you, yet Lewis being stripped of all 3 belts for refusing to fight the No1 contenders is not a crime.. is that what you are saying?

Who are Lewis bigger & more lucrative fights against.. Grant & Botha?.... your making a fool of yourself now McCoy!

Lewis was the legitimate champion after beating Holyfield BUT he never defended that Legitimate title.. He was stripped of every belt for refusing to fight the No1 contenders.. do you agree or disagree?

you provided the evidence for me of Golota:

One of lidocaine's side effects, according to most medical dictionaries, is the possibility of seizures.

Duva, who like Bloodworth was at the arena working with prelim fighters, said he thought his fighter, who appeared frozen and wild-eyed, "was stressed out."

You have not shown a link for the Moorer comments you claim he made:

Lewis never changed nationality.. He has been Canadian for nearly 40yrs.. He chose to come to Britain when turning pro so as to avoid having to fight Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson and all the other top USA professionals.

Are you claiming Tyson & Holyfield was at the top of their game, when Lewis fought them?

When i asked you who you thought would win between Bowe & Lewis should they have fought between 93-95 you replied, " I'd give the edge to Bowe"
yet you now deny saying that?

You ask me "Do i hate Lennox Lewis"

No, why should i hate the guy, i have seen him box `live` on several occasions, i traveled hundreds of miles to his fights, paid hotel bills, bought expensive fight-tickets and enjoyed myself along the way, No i do not hate Lewis but i tell it how it actually was about how i seen his career unfold and how in my opinion he avoided all the Top Fighters who was at "The Top of there Game".. i wanted to see Lewis fight Bowe, Tyson, Ruiz, Byrd, Sanders, Wlad, Witherspoon, Hide, Jones Jr. when the opportunity was there for him during 1993-2001 but Lewis always chose an easy opponent rather than fight the best at the time, which left me feeling he was an opportunist.. i was there the night McCall poleaxed him and believe me the fight was stopped correctly and i was there to support Lewis not McCall.. i was there the night Frank Bruno came within a whisker of beating him as Lewis struggled to beat him and i realized Lewis was not in the same league as Tyson, Bowe & Holyfield... i followed Lewis career very closely and watched as he ducked out of fights, i wanted him to fight John Ruiz & Chris Byrd and would fancy Lewis to have beaten them both but Lewis never fancied himself to beat them both.. i don't get carried away and claim Lewis to be a Top 10 ATG Heavyweight like the vast majority of British & Canadian boxing fans do, Lewis cannot possibly be a Top 10 ATG because of him getting KOd by 2 journeymen and his record of avoiding fighters who was at "The Top of there Game".... during the 1990s we had some fantastic heavyweight fights in Holyfield vs Foreman, Holyfield vs Cooper, Bowe vs Holyfield I & II, Tyson vs Douglas, Tyson vs Ruddock I & II, Holyfield vs Dokes, Bowe vs Golota I & II, Tyson vs Holyfield I, ....with those fights being between two fighters who was at "The Top of there Game".. yet we never had any Lennox Lewis fights which we could call great fights and the reason was because Lewis avoided taking part in fights against any opponent who was at "The Top of there Game".. and that is where my downgrading of Lewis comes from.. No i don't hate the guy, i just put his career into the correct perspective and tell it like it really was.... So you are welcome to believe whatever you wish about Lewis, you can believe every fighter in the world from 1992-203 was afraid to fight Lewis, you can believe Lewis would be TOO BIG for every former heavyweight champion in history like some members do, you can believe Lewis had the best jab in history like some members do.. but don't ever expect me to believe all that kind of rubbish, Lennox Lewis is now retired from the sport and during his career i seen him fight and followed his career so my mind is well and truly made up on Lewis and his capabilities.

[Kid McCoy]

Both Klitschko brothers held the WBO Heavyweight Title in 2000 yet neither was in the Ring ratings....

A reflection of how the WBO title was regarded at the time.

Yes Akinwande was a bum and always has been which is why Lewis fought him even tho as you claim he was No1 contender.. yet Ruiz & Byrd was also No1 contenders but Lewis wanted nothing to do with them because they was "At the Top of their Game"

Akinwande was also a WBO champion. You want it to be a major belt when the Klitschkos held it but now when Akinwande held it. Make up your mind. You think beating such legends as Thomas Williams, Fernely Feliz, Mario Cawley and Jerry Ballard shows Ruiz was "at the top of his game". I don't.

So Bowe throwing one of his 3 belts in the garbage can is a crime to you, yet Lewis being stripped of all 3 belts for refusing to fight the No1 contenders is not a crime.. is that what you are saying?

Lewis was not stripped of all 3 belts. He retired as WBC champion.

Who are Lewis bigger & more lucrative fights against.. Grant & Botha?.... your making a fool of yourself now McCoy!

Says the guy who thinks Lewis is a fraud for fighting old men Holy, Tucker and Tyson but he should have fought men in their 40s like Foreman, Spoon and Smith. A bum for fighting bums like Jackson and Botha but he should have fought terrors like Hide and Brewster. Right.

Grant was a bigger, more lucrative fight than Ruiz. Only you, Ruiz, Don King and the WBA thought otherwise.

Lewis was the legitimate champion after beating Holyfield BUT he never defended that Legitimate title.. He was stripped of every belt for refusing to fight the No1 contenders.. do you agree or disagree?

Glad you agree. You already said that and no he wasn't.

you provided the evidence for me of Golota:

One of lidocaine's side effects, according to most medical dictionaries, is the possibility of seizures.

Duva, who like Bloodworth was at the arena working with prelim fighters, said he thought his fighter, who appeared frozen and wild-eyed, "was stressed out."

So you agree he was given it for a knee problem. Laugh of the century indeed. You said Lewis jumped on Golota from the opening bell knowing he'd been drugged. Doesn't look that way to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0em16mPPvR0

You have not shown a link for the Moorer comments you claim he made:

Read up. I posted it, you ignored it.

Lewis never changed nationality.. He has been Canadian for nearly 40yrs.. He chose to come to Britain when turning pro so as to avoid having to fight Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson and all the other top USA professionals.

He didn't have to change nationality, he's a British citizen by birth. How would moving to Britain help him avoid top professionals? Why couldn't he have avoided them in Canada?

Are you claiming Tyson & Holyfield was at the top of their game, when Lewis fought them?

I never said Tyson was. In his next fight Holy was good enough to beat #1 contender Ruiz, who according to you was "at the top of his game". Either Holy wasn't that shot or Ruiz wasn't that good. Which is it?

When i asked you who you thought would win between Bowe & Lewis should they have fought between 93-95 you replied, " I'd give the edge to Bowe"
yet you now deny saying that?

I said "I'd give the edge to Bowe", which you translated to "Lewis would have been beaten by Bowe".

You ask me "Do i hate Lennox Lewis"

No, why should i hate the guy, i have seen him box `live` on several occasions, i traveled hundreds of miles to his fights, paid hotel bills, bought expensive fight-tickets and enjoyed myself along the way, No i do not hate Lewis but i tell it how it actually was about how i seen his career unfold and how in my opinion he avoided all the Top Fighters who was at "The Top of there Game".. i wanted to see Lewis fight Bowe, Tyson, Ruiz, Byrd, Sanders, Wlad, Witherspoon, Hide, Jones Jr. when the opportunity was there for him during 1993-2001 but Lewis always chose an easy opponent rather than fight the best at the time, which left me feeling he was an opportunist.. i was there the night McCall poleaxed him and believe me the fight was stopped correctly and i was there to support Lewis not McCall.. i was there the night Frank Bruno came within a whisker of beating him as Lewis struggled to beat him and i realized Lewis was not in the same league as Tyson, Bowe & Holyfield... i followed Lewis career very closely and watched as he ducked out of fights, i wanted him to fight John Ruiz & Chris Byrd and would fancy Lewis to have beaten them both but Lewis never fancied himself to beat them both.. i don't get carried away and claim Lewis to be a Top 10 ATG Heavyweight like the vast majority of British & Canadian boxing fans do, Lewis cannot possibly be a Top 10 ATG because of him getting KOd by 2 journeymen and his record of avoiding fighters who was at "The Top of there Game".... during the 1990s we had some fantastic heavyweight fights in Holyfield vs Foreman, Holyfield vs Cooper, Bowe vs Holyfield I & II, Tyson vs Douglas, Tyson vs Ruddock I & II, Holyfield vs Dokes, Bowe vs Golota I & II, Tyson vs Holyfield I, ....with those fights being between two fighters who was at "The Top of there Game".. yet we never had any Lennox Lewis fights which we could call great fights and the reason was because Lewis avoided taking part in fights against any opponent who was at "The Top of there Game".. and that is where my downgrading of Lewis comes from.. No i don't hate the guy, i just put his career into the correct perspective and tell it like it really was.... So you are welcome to believe whatever you wish about Lewis, you can believe every fighter in the world from 1992-203 was afraid to fight Lewis, you can believe Lewis would be TOO BIG for every former heavyweight champion in history like some members do, you can believe Lewis had the best jab in history like some members do.. but don't ever expect me to believe all that kind of rubbish, Lennox Lewis is now retired from the sport and during his career i seen him fight and followed his career so my mind is well and truly made up on Lewis and his capabilities.

Much like your opinion of the Greb-Tunney series. As you said yourself, you made your opinion and you're sticking to it come what may, even when the facts contradict you. You twist and cherry pick facts which suit your views and ignore everything else. I've been over all your claims about who Lewis is meant to have ducked and you haven't refuted my arguments. You're still claiming Lewis ducked Jones when even your own articles prove you wrong! If you want to work that way then that's your choice, but it's not objective or rational and at times it makes you look a bit of a fool.

[Barn]

You guys are going round in circles, I think it's time to agree to disagreee.

[sonnyboyx2]

A reflection of how the WBO title was regarded at the time.



Akinwande was also a WBO champion. You want it to be a major belt when the Klitschkos held it but now when Akinwande held it. Make up your mind. You think beating such legends as Thomas Williams, Fernely Feliz, Mario Cawley and Jerry Ballard shows Ruiz was "at the top of his game". I don't.



Lewis was not stripped of all 3 belts. He retired as WBC champion.



Says the guy who thinks Lewis is a fraud for fighting old men Holy, Tucker and Tyson but he should have fought men in their 40s like Foreman, Spoon and Smith. A bum for fighting bums like Jackson and Botha but he should have fought terrors like Hide and Brewster. Right.

Grant was a bigger, more lucrative fight than Ruiz. Only you, Ruiz, Don King and the WBA thought otherwise.



Glad you agree. You already said that and no he wasn't.



So you agree he was given it for a knee problem. Laugh of the century indeed. You said Lewis jumped on Golota from the opening bell knowing he'd been drugged. Doesn't look that way to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0em16mPPvR0



Read up. I posted it, you ignored it.



He didn't have to change nationality, he's a British citizen by birth. How would moving to Britain help him avoid top professionals? Why couldn't he have avoided them in Canada?



I never said Tyson was. In his next fight Holy was good enough to beat #1 contender Ruiz, who according to you was "at the top of his game". Either Holy wasn't that shot or Ruiz wasn't that good. Which is it?



I said "I'd give the edge to Bowe", which you translated to "Lewis would have been beaten by Bowe".



Much like your opinion of the Greb-Tunney series. As you said yourself, you made your opinion and you're sticking to it come what may, even when the facts contradict you. You twist and cherry pick facts which suit your views and ignore everything else. I've been over all your claims about who Lewis is meant to have ducked and you haven't refuted my arguments. You're still claiming Lewis ducked Jones when even your own articles prove you wrong! If you want to work that way then that's your choice, but it's not objective or rational and at times it makes you look a bit of a fool.

it is clear that i annoy you and that me telling it how it really was about Lewis irritates you and gets under your skin..you keep claiming that i rate John Ruiz as some kind of world-beater yet you know fine well i have never said anything of the kind, i said Lewis should have fought Ruiz because Ruiz was the No1 contender... but to give your agenda some leverage you twist it around and try to make Ruiz out to be a bum which he most definately was not, Ruiz was good enough to beat Holyfield & Rahman far easier than what Lewis did... you twist it to make out that Henry Akinwande was a brilliant fighter yet his title fight with Lewis turned out to be ridiculous.... you claim Lewis was not stripped of all 3 belts yet he retired 3 days before he was due to be stripped of his last remaining belt, so it is immaterial 2 belts or 3 belts, he was still stripped... you use the term "Old Men" and insinuate that i used that term which is incorrect, only you have used that term to describe Holyfield, Tucker, Spoon & Smith... Lewis never ever defending the undisputed title is FACT yet you cannot bring yourself to admit it like you cannot supply a link of Moorer saying he did not want to fight Lewis... You claim Lewis is British yet know he has lived in Canada for 40yrs and his children go to school there, maybe its because if you keep believing him to be British your idolization of him has some kind of legitimacy to it with you also being British...Holyfield was Shot when he faced Lewis but you twist it claiming he beat Ruiz yet styles make fights and Ruiz won there next 2 fights... Lewis must have thought Ruiz was too much for him otherwise he would have fought him....You giving Bowe the edge over Lewis in my understanding ment you thought Bowe would beat him.. you know say it did not mean that, so maybe you can tell me what you ment by "Giving Bowe the edge.

yes i believe Tunney beat Greb 4-1 with you never showing me anything to change my mind although you seem to believe you had.. you have never provided any evidence on anything to change my mind about anything to do with the sport of boxing..

i have read many times of how Lennox Lewis ducked fighting Roy Jones in 2001 and will stick to my belief, Lewis said in many tabloid newspapers that he had nothing to prove by fighting a middleweight and turned down a staggering $35 million + PPV i showed you several links which proved that to be the case along with several links where Michael Moorer said Lewis turned down fights with him... you ignored those links.... i have never like you claim, "Looked a Fool".. my message box and Green K from members on this subject & Greb vs Tunney subject prove that.. the only fool in either subject was you.. with you always wanting the last word but i will reply to this subject with you till i am 100yrs old without you getting the better of me because i enjoy talking Lennox Lewis as i know all about the guy, he is one fighter who i specialize in..