Fighters who next to no talent or naural ability but still becoome a Champion?

[XionComrade]

What do I have to gain by being bias toward the Klitschko brothers?

I respect them as fighters and as the distinguished gentlemen that they are. As people, I hold them in the highest regard and have no animosity or bias toward either of them.

You apparently do, seeing as how you are mindlessly spouting out negative manure about their lives work >.<

[Suckmedry]

No one has any success in boxing without some form of talent.

The ability to pick up technical skills is a talent, a good chin is a talent (although it msounds odd, but it is), natural speed, strength, power, a good eye, a good boxing brain, natural co-ordination

[CarlosG815]

You apparently do, seeing as how you are mindlessly spouting out negative manure about their lives work >.<

This thread asked opinion's about who has become champion with little to no athletic ability. In my opinion the Klitschko brother's fit that description. I am entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to yours.

[Tiozzo]

but defense is more learned in the gym that natural ability isn't it?

I'm not trying to downplay on Marciano's excellent ability to block and slip, but im trying to use my perspective that he learned how to block and slip from work in the gym thus not a natural talent.

However i suppose natural reflexes would help one evade all the punches fairly quickly like Marciano did.

Imma real confused on what to pick for defense.

Natural talent or learned in the gym?

I guess it's a bit of both, but you're right, it's more about learnt skills than natural ability

[Tiozzo]

totally agree with this post specially on the hand speed thing i cant understand why anyone would say they have good hand speed even fat arreola had faster hands than vitali

even Eddie Chambers, one of the men who have the fastest hands in the division, ackowledged the fact that Wladimir has good handspeed prior to fighting him

Arreola ?

[Tiozzo]

Éric Lucas.

He would openly say he had very little natural talent, but through hard work and dedication, he eventually became champion. There were better naturally talented fighters around him when he was going up the ranks, but he achieved more than them in the end because he was such a hard worker and a determined man.

[Tiozzo]

A person with natural athletic ability is a person who is naturally gifted and can outperform an average person in speed, quickness, endurance, hand eye coordination, etc.

Not included in my definition is a person who is naturally bigger who paws at opponents with their jab and tries to follow up with a straight punch. It also doesn't include a person who can't throw punches while moving, maintaining proper head movement while slipping punches, and a person who never looks comfortable on their feet, as is the case with the Klitschko's, as neither has even decent footwork.

If you really need a person to define athletic ability to see why that person believes either Klitschko is not athletic, then you shouldn't even be in a debate about what athletic ability is, as they have none. I thought that was common knowledge?

Do you really see athletic ability when you watch them fight? It's like watching children play with those plastic boxing toys that you move with your hands and click with your thumbs to make them throw punches.

ok for your definition, despite the fact that you have incorporated some questionnable details

as for your comment about whether or not I should get involved in the debate, I'll pass, you don't seem to realize at least 3 people in this thread alone disagree with you when you say none of the 2 bros are athletic

Wlad's footwork is solid, he has great balance, he can move in and out, he has underrated handspeed, great reflexes, and it's hard to get to that chin because of his movement and blocking ability

to me, this sounds like an athletic man

Vitali is another story

[Tiozzo]

George Foreman.

His natural ability resumes to his power and his chin.

Ali didn't call him a mummy for nothing.

[JAB5239]

Show me where they show athletic ability with their speed and movement.

And why is it pathetic? Those are guy's who move and it is apparent they have natural athletic ability, such as guys like Joe Louis, Ali, Frazier, Tyson, Patterson, etc... An athlete is an athlete. Even in watching their training there is nothing that suggests that they are athletic.

Either that or you and I have two very different definitions of what athletic ability is.

Don't know if I'd call Frazier athletic, but more determined. He almost drown on ABC's wide world of sports.

[BigStereotype]

It is pathetic to compare the two because Basketball players are not being punched in the face. I have never known of a basketball player to die or be seriously maimed during a game >.< No comparison...The motivation in training for a fighter is far far greater than it is for a measly ball player(Measly in comparison)

You have to be real man, just the way the Klitschko's throw a punch is plenty of athletic ability...Do you think a normal man punches with that good a technique? **** no...A normal man is a out of shape wimp for one thing, and many people have never even been in a fight with OTHER out of shape wimps. They are athletic for sure, very very athletic, just awkward in comparison to some of the other great fighters.

Wait what? You think that the Klitschkos are more athletic than LeBron James? Outside of Tom Brady and Manny Ramirez, there aren't too many athletes I detest more than LeBron, but you can't deny that he could be the greatest athlete you or I have ever seen. Saying that Vitali or Wlad knowing how to punch makes them natural athletes is simply absurd. How does having a learned skill make you naturally athletic? Now I think that Wlad is a better athlete than Vitali and that neither of them are particularly poor by heavyweight standards, but LeBron James is on the same level as Manny Pacquiao, Lawrence Taylor and Roy Jones. Get real, man.