Fighters who next to no talent or naural ability but still becoome a Champion?

[REDRUM619]

I've never seen Wlad look "fluid" and I doubt I ever will. Neither fighter has what I'd call "good handspeed".....in fact, I'd rate Lewis and Bowe over both Ks in handspeed and neither of those two were particularly swift.

More to the point, the thread is about natural ability or talent not whether they have any advantages aside from size. Vitali, for example, is tough, has a great chin, good stamina, and a high workrate. All those things make him a top fighter but none of them make him a natural athlete. In fact, all those traits apply to Marciano as well as Vitali. Wlad, on the other hand, has a better skill set then Vitali, which gives him a big advantage over the current crop of Heavies, but lacks the afore mentioned advantages that Vitali has. Again, though, a skill set is not natural ability: It's something learned, as opposed to something that comes naturally ie. athleticism.

Poet

totally agree with this post specially on the hand speed thing i cant understand why anyone would say they have good hand speed even fat arreola had faster hands than vitali

[CarlosG815]

I think Wlad moves pretty fluidly, while Vitali doesn't

I don't agree about the handspeed, but it's ok

for a man his size, Wladimir is freaking athletic to me (while Vitali is not, again)

Lebron James is athletic. Carmelo Anthony and Dwight Howard are athletic.

Those are prime examples of big athletic men. Klitschko's are not at all athletic man, they possess no athletic ability whatsoever.

[XionComrade]

Lebron James is athletic. Carmelo Anthony and Dwight Howard are athletic.

Those are prime examples of big athletic men. Klitschko's are not at all athletic man, they possess no athletic ability whatsoever.

Oh come on man, that is borderline trolling....Comparing the athletic ability of a great basketball player to the heavyweight champion alone is just pathetic Even the lower end Champs :/

They posses PLENTY of athletic ability, failure to recognize that is just ridiculous. They are at least legitimate champion caliber fighters even if they aren't as good as a Ali, Frazier, Foreman Louis :/

[CarlosG815]

Oh come on man, that is borderline trolling....Comparing the athletic ability of a great basketball player to the heavyweight champion alone is just pathetic Even the lower end Champs :/

They posses PLENTY of athletic ability, failure to recognize that is just ridiculous. They are at least legitimate champion caliber fighters even if they aren't as good as a Ali, Frazier, Foreman Louis :/

Show me where they show athletic ability with their speed and movement.

And why is it pathetic? Those are guy's who move and it is apparent they have natural athletic ability, such as guys like Joe Louis, Ali, Frazier, Tyson, Patterson, etc... An athlete is an athlete. Even in watching their training there is nothing that suggests that they are athletic.

Either that or you and I have two very different definitions of what athletic ability is.

[Tiozzo]

Show me where they show athletic ability with their speed and movement.

And why is it pathetic? Those are guy's who move and it is apparent they have natural athletic ability, such as guys like Joe Louis, Ali, Frazier, Tyson, Patterson, etc... An athlete is an athlete. Even in watching their training there is nothing that suggests that they are athletic.

Either that or you and I have two very different definitions of what athletic ability is.

go ahead, I would like to hear your definition

[CarlosG815]

go ahead, I would like to hear your definition

A person with natural athletic ability is a person who is naturally gifted and can outperform an average person in speed, quickness, endurance, hand eye coordination, etc.

Not included in my definition is a person who is naturally bigger who paws at opponents with their jab and tries to follow up with a straight punch. It also doesn't include a person who can't throw punches while moving, maintaining proper head movement while slipping punches, and a person who never looks comfortable on their feet, as is the case with the Klitschko's, as neither has even decent footwork.

If you really need a person to define athletic ability to see why that person believes either Klitschko is not athletic, then you shouldn't even be in a debate about what athletic ability is, as they have none. I thought that was common knowledge?

Do you really see athletic ability when you watch them fight? It's like watching children play with those plastic boxing toys that you move with your hands and click with your thumbs to make them throw punches.

[XionComrade]

Show me where they show athletic ability with their speed and movement.

And why is it pathetic? Those are guy's who move and it is apparent they have natural athletic ability, such as guys like Joe Louis, Ali, Frazier, Tyson, Patterson, etc... An athlete is an athlete. Even in watching their training there is nothing that suggests that they are athletic.

Either that or you and I have two very different definitions of what athletic ability is.

It is pathetic to compare the two because Basketball players are not being punched in the face. I have never known of a basketball player to die or be seriously maimed during a game >.< No comparison...The motivation in training for a fighter is far far greater than it is for a measly ball player(Measly in comparison)

You have to be real man, just the way the Klitschko's throw a punch is plenty of athletic ability...Do you think a normal man punches with that good a technique? **** no...A normal man is a out of shape wimp for one thing, and many people have never even been in a fight with OTHER out of shape wimps. They are athletic for sure, very very athletic, just awkward in comparison to some of the other great fighters.

[Scott9945]

Lebron James is athletic. Carmelo Anthony and Dwight Howard are athletic.

Those are prime examples of big athletic men. Klitschko's are not at all athletic man, they possess no athletic ability whatsoever.

Wow, that is way over the top. Some of the bias in this forum is just headshaking.

[CarlosG815]

Wow, that is way over the top. Some of the bias in this forum is just headshaking.

What do I have to gain by being bias toward the Klitschko brothers?

I respect them as fighters and as the distinguished gentlemen that they are. As people, I hold them in the highest regard and have no animosity or bias toward either of them.

[DarkTerror88]

here is an interesting video

big props and all the credit to rednekkrudy

but defense is more learned in the gym that natural ability isn't it?

I'm not trying to downplay on Marciano's excellent ability to block and slip, but im trying to use my perspective that he learned how to block and slip from work in the gym thus not a natural talent.

However i suppose natural reflexes would help one evade all the punches fairly quickly like Marciano did.

Imma real confused on what to pick for defense.

Natural talent or learned in the gym?