Muhammad Ali brags about preaching at a KKK convention

[Joeyzagz]

No and No
As you can see its still in my usertitle and when I get my points up to 8K I will change it back again.

Its clear to anyone who reads this thread that you changed your longtime-handle after I gave you sh.t for it.

Now you will change it back to avoid looking like a spineless-flip-flop. Understandable.

[Toney616]

Never said that. Good to see you stooping to lying now.

Your post I believe:

Does this look like Ali is/was still in the Nation of Islam to you?

While managing Ali, Muhammad secured multimillion-dollar purses for the champion as he fought and won three heavyweight titles and became the most recognized athlete of his generation. Muhammad could demand almost anything for a fight or appearance, and both he and the Nation of Islam were rewarded with a healthy cut of the action.

"I think he genuinely cared about Ali. But he was also interested in making money for himself," Hauser said.

Ali's wife, Lonnie, gradually took over her husband's business affairs, and Muhammad and the boxer cut ties in the early 1990s. In 1993, Ali sued Muhammad, alleging that a foundation that used the boxer's name improperly used his signature in fundraising letters and other work intended to promote Islamic causes. The lawsuit was settled the next year when the foundation changed its name.


Who do you think that foundation was? What group was promoting Islamic causes?
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug.../me-muhammad27

I never called him a civil rights activist either.

Me:

What did Ali ever do?

Your post I believe:

Sacrificed his career, passport, and millions of dollars for his beliefs. And became a target for public scorn. I would say he gave up a lot.

But that would not have been nearly as comical as you calling Floyd Patterson a "Civil rights activist." Especially when he was opposed to Ali's rights to change his name by continuing to call him "Clay".

OK History lesson time:
Ali was born Cassius Marcellus Clay
His first two names are in honor of the firebrand abolitionist
His surname he got because a white man named Henry Clay married into his family. Its was never a slave name i.e a name given to his family from their slave owners,
He was proud of his name until the nation got into his head and told him otherwise
Leading up to his fight with Patterson he openly called Patterson's religion a slave religion - of course he had to expect that Patterson was going to hit back at him. Islam was also involved up to its neck in the slave trade-but mr Ali of course didn't know anything about that

[Toney616]

This makes it clear to me that you are clueless on this topic. You're using this as an example? Really? Ali said those things as an 18 year old Olympian in order to be PC, non confrontational, and a good representative for his country. What else was he going say? In 1960? I don't think I need to explain why. And he regretted it. It's all in his book that you didn't read.

He was a full blown member of the Nation of Islam when that book was written. So what he says while joined to a loony religious space worshiping cult is to believed, but everything he said before that is to be disbelieved?
Down with America, I hate America- Why didn't he just leave it then?
Other things Ali has said:

Either out of fear or a feudal sense of obligation to the Messenger, Ali held a press conference at the Theresa the same day. "Ameer's nothing to me," he said. "He was welcomed as a friend as long as he was a registered ******, but not anymore." When asked if Ameer should fear for his life, Ali answered coldly; "They think everyone's out to kill them because they know they deserved to be killed for what they did." His "they" included Malcolm X.

As the death threats morphed into murder plots, Betty Shabazz begged Ali's intercession. "You see what they are doing to my husband, don't you?" She pleaded after a chance encounter with Ali at the Theresa. Ali blew her off, disingenuously raising his hands in the air saying, "I'm not doing anything to him."

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=426929

The Uncle Tom epithet tripped so incessantly from Ali's lips and now from the crowd around the gym, that Joe might as well have been wearing a sign. His son, Marvis had to defend himself and his father at school. The phone calls came day and night, some calling him a tommin' dog, others vowing that he would never see another day if he beat Ali. The label hadn't stuck with Patterson or Terrel, but it was isolating him to a speck of a man, right in his own town, in his own gym. Frazier had police guarding him around the clock, and it seemed remarkable that he did not teeter into disoientation,

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=430276
I bet these two chapters in Ali's life were conveniently left out of the greatest

[Toney616]

Its clear to anyone who reads this thread that you changed your longtime-handle after I gave you sh.t for it.
Now you will change it back to avoid looking like a spineless-flip-flop. Understandable.

You have no credibility whats so ever. Mr "I'm trying to win a argument by constantly changing my argument 5 times" Zagz

Your post I believe:

Max played a vital roll in Hitler's slow creep to Devilgod by helping deliver the 1936 Olympics to **** Germany.

You know following this logic you can also blame the athletes that attended the Olympics as helping Hitlers slow creep to DevilGod. Cant have an Olympics without athletes after all

Your actually trying to defend a black man whose so lost the plot he hangs out with the Klan?

Off topic: Poet if you are still reading this thread could you post up some solid links about Schmeling?

[Toney616]

More than you obviously.

you think so?

And no Ali did not feel the exact same way regarding President Kennedy. Ali liked Kennedy and publicly criticized Malcolm X for his comments. You are dead wrong about that and it's not the first time.

lol
Even the Nation distanced itself from Malcolm for saying that, it was what led to Malcolm X's suspension from the Nation of Islam. Malcolm said that stuff off his own back, Not because he was a member of the Nation of Islam.
So look whose wrong now

[Toney616]

Joe Louis was a caged American. Joe Louis had every aspect of his life controlled. He was the only heavyweight champ that had to live by a set of rules on when and where to smile, and to not show emotion after a win.

Considering the times he lived in it's not surprising he had to follow certain rules especially coming after the nutcase Jack Johnson. Joe Louis was a proud man who managed to keep his dignity in very undignified times. He would go on to be not just a hero to his people but was also embraced by Americans of other races as well
You my trolling friend are starting to walk down another slippery slope with this

Ali was the antithesis of this. Ali didnt want to be a caged, obedient servant of the establishment, so naturally he chose the NOI over the other movement. He was basically walking from one cage to another, but that's the story of the 60's.

Emphasis on chose
Joe Louis would end up actually achieving actual gains for his people while the other guy did absolutely nothing. And I told you before you are on a slippery slope with this

Here is the definition of civil rights

1. the personal rights of the individual citizen, in most countries upheld by law, as in the US
2. ( modifier ) of, relating to, or promoting equality in social, economic, and political rights

Here are the first 3 points of the NOI "what ******s want"

1. We want freedom. We want a full and complete freedom.

2. We want justice. Equal justice under the law. We want justice applied equally to all, regardless of creed or class or color.

3. We want equality of opportunity. We want equal membership in society with the best in civilized society.

Stop

The African-American Civil Rights Movement (1955–1968) refers to the movements in the United States aimed at outlawing racial discrimination against African Americans and restoring voting rights in Southern states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African...2%80%931968%29
Do you see your problem?

The NOI may not have been a "loving" movement but they were basically calling for the civil rights of their people. I think its the word "civil" that is confusing you.

Not its not. I'm talking about the movement to end racial discrimination, which the Nation ridiculed and refused to get involved with

Which specific award(s) do you believe he did not deserve?

Arg 6: The Nation of Islam is a Civil Rights rights group????

He deserves none of them. What part of that do you not understand? Did he get involved in the movement in any shape or form? Of course not. Was in the Deep South getting hit with bricks, water hoses and bitten by dogs? Was he risking his life trying to get blacks in the South to vote?

Who is this guy? We don't know. All that we do know is that he must of suffered greatly, while fighting for a cause he believed in. His name is lost to time, but you think some clown now deserves to pick up awards for his suffering? GTFO

These were the people that Ali decided to hang out with instead:

[Toney616]

I've asked the same question and still haven't gotten an answer.

Ali never got involved in the struggle in any shape or form and that is the end of it. The brave men and women who actually risked their health and at times even their lives are the only people who deserve to pick up any kind of awards.

Maybe Ali is there under one of those hoods

[Toney616]

[B]Well you apparently ignored a lot of what you read in "life and times".

That was one of the first Ali books I read and I came away from it thinking he was nothing more than a gullible buffoon

Did you ever read "The greatest: My own story" too? Because obviously your basing your opinions on one point of view.

I would say that Hauser was pretty pro Ali. Not to mention documentaries like when we were kings and Michael Man's Ali are are quite pro Ali as well

What specifically did Ali's parents say he "lied" about in that book? This should be good lol.

When I read the relevant chapters then Ill post them up. Howard Bingham and even Bundini brown called parts of it lies as well
The throwing away of the Olympic medal-is one story that comes to mind

Interesting that you would say that Ali's book is "full of lies" but accept every anti Ali book written as truth.

Why didn't those writers interview Betty Shabazz, Eddie Futch and Aisha Ali for example?

I know the suffering he caused to Frazier and others and I can see how his less than savory actions are played down in a lot of those books. When those book start to cover Ali romance with the Klan maybe Ill paying more attention to them. You have to cover the negative as well as the positive after all to get a complete picture of any man

And when/if you post Moore's side of it, how do you know who's side is more accurate?

Moore had no reason to lie and judging from how Ali treated Dundee at times I'm inclined to lean towards Moore.

[joseph5620]

Your post I believe:


Me:

Your post I believe:


OK History lesson time:
Ali was born Cassius Marcellus Clay
His first two names are in honor of the firebrand abolitionist
His surname he got because a white man named Henry Clay married into his family. Its was never a slave name i.e a name given to his family from their slave owners,
He was proud of his name until the nation got into his head and told him otherwise
Leading up to his fight with Patterson he openly called Patterson's religion a slave religion - of course he had to expect that Patterson was going to hit back at him. Islam was also involved up to its neck in the slave trade-but mr Ali of course didn't know anything about that

I don't have time to filter through the other crap you posted or the fact that you lied by taking my statements out of their context. It's quite simple: Ali legally changed his name. Which means he was legally no longer Cassias Clay. Your response is that Clay was an "Abolitionist and white?" LOL? People have the right to change their names for whatever reason..You're not smart enough to understand that. Just like you're not smart enough to understand that Ali faced racism in the 50's. The history of the name "Cassias Clay" is irrelevant. But apparently you don't understand simple laws in America.




This self serving "history" you're posting has nothing to do with the topic that you're trying to avoid. It's irrelevant. And it doent make you look smart. It makes you look ignorant.

[joseph5620]

How about some direct quotes from Ali himself before he got in deep with the Nation or those close to him rather than just assuming he went through extreme racism?

I never said that. I said he was pampered because he acted like a spoilt kid when Archie Moore was trying to get him to do jobs which Ali felt were below his rank

No you didn't say that.



QUOTE=-Lightsout-;10246678]No and No
As you can see its still in my usertitle and when I get my points up to 8K I will change it back again. Im now ready to discuss Tyson seeing as you have literally run out of thread hijacks

Because the internet exists in America can we then therefore conclude that all Americans are exposed to it in equal amounts?
The answer is of course not
When Ali was at the Olympoics he told a Russian reporter that America is the best country in the world. It has problems but we have qualified people sorting that out. Does that sound like a guy worried about living in a hostile enviroment? He was a optimist and a patriot back then. Just because a country has problems doesn't mean that everyone in that country will be exposed to it in equal amounts. Its a logical fallacy.
Joe Louis and Frazier suffered more than Ali ever would and they were patriots. He chose to join the Nation and that is the end of it. There were other options available to him. The environment argument is a very slippery slope

There were other options avaiable to him, like joining a civil rights movement

lol at your flawed logic
All people no matter what have to accept responsibilites for there actions you cannot blame the environment. The fact that other people in the same position as him chose not to join hurts your argument. Black and whie Americans were shocked when they found out Ali joined that loony group
Floyd Patterson had a much harder upbringing than Ali and he became a civil rights activist.
Joe Louis was from the Deep South and he was a proud American and took part in the Second World War
Joe Frazier was brought up on a plantation in South Carolina and he was a proud American

These guys lived in the same America as Ali did

If pampered middle class Ali wants join a loony group that promises to tell him about secret spaceships that's up to him. But you cannot tell me it was the hostile environment that made him do so.[/QUOTE]


Where is Archie's Moore's name mentioned here?