Muhammad Ali brags about preaching at a KKK convention

[Toney616]

Spoke out against racism and for the rights of black Americans.

One guy enters debates in the Senate with other Civil Rights activists and encourages blacks in the Deep South to vote. His work is then stopped because he is killed and you want to compare that to Ali who belonged to a group which forbade him from getting involved in politics in any way? Ali never got involved in any group with the intention of changing anything. What was stopping him from taking part in marches or actions of civil disobedience? Malcolm X couldnt because he was killed what is Ali's excuse?

He "talked" just like Malcolm X. He debated students on college campuses regarding the issue of race.

Malcolm X was killed before he could carry out his plan which would of been more than complaining to collegue students. And that is all Ali was doing complaining he never had any intention of ever changing anything. Too busy waiting for a spaceship to take him away
One guy is given months to do something while the other guy has years and you consider that a fair comparison?

The only difference is that you don't like Ali. And Malcolm X fell out with Elijah Muhammad for numerous reasons including the fact that Muhammad was a charlatan. [/I][/B]

With your friend Ali calling for his death

[RubenSonny]

Just to chime in, X was more respected and had more influence in the third world.

[Toney616]

You are ignoring that he was America's biggest celebrity Ambassador to the third world. The people of Africa admired and adored him. Islamic countries loved him...These are people America had trouble reaching, thats why he is lauded so heavily today. He bridged gaps and America was grateful.

What has this got to do with the fact that he has no right picking up civil right awards?

[Toney616]

[I] I think his religious views are the point. And yes I can say Ali left the NOI. If you want to go that route, you claimed Ali never left the NOI. Muhammad Ali is no longer associated with the Nation of Islam in any way, shape, or form. I don't know how it can be made any more clear to you.

I will say it again
There are two Nation of Islams:
1: Started in the 40's by Elijah Muhammad
2: Started in 1978 by Louis Farrakhan

The first one(ver 1.0) changed to the American ****** group and was lead by Elijah's son Wallace D Muhammad with Ali and Farrakhan being members of it

Farrakhan breaks away and forms his own nation(NOI ver 2.0)

You are using the logic that because Ali is not part of Farrakhans group (ver 2.0) he left the nation of islam(ver 1.0). Flawed logic

I used his conversion as a starting point. You keep saying he never left the NOI and that is completely false.

Do you think its a coincidence that he converted the same time that Wallace changed the nation?

In 1993 he filed a lawsuit against Elijah Muhammad's son Herbert for using his name to profit Islamic causes.

Does this look like Ali is/was still in the Nation of Islam to you?

Because he stops Herbert Muhammad from using his name that means he left the nation? What kind of logic is that?

[Toney616]

It sounds like someone who's been told that black people are the supreme master race and whites are a genetically engineered breed of devils ceated by a mad scientist on a fictional island.

i.e. someone who has been brainwashed

Thankfully Ali has a better grasp of history after some careful study.

“I’m 818 years-old, and I look damn good!”

While we normally associate religious race-hate with Cracker-Ass-Mormons and the like, incredibly ****** and racist mythology isn’t solely of pasty provenance. Enter Yakub. According to the Nation of Islam founder and savior figure Wallace Fard Muhammad, Yakub, who lived 6,600 years ago, first devised a plan to create a new race of people while playing with magnets as a child. (Kids do the darnedest things.) Carrying this odd ambition into adulthood, he devoured all the knowledge Mecca’s community colleges had to offer, and then brought exactly 59,999 followers to the island of Patmos to bring his twisted childhood dream to fruition, where he ruled over them like a Black Robot Hitler on crack. Over the next 200 years, he bred his followers as one would dogs, killing the black babies until he created a race of brown people. Not satisfied, he selectively sexed and slaughtered, for another 600 years, until he finally created a race of “white devils,” who would rule earth until 1914 with their general wickedness and deception. So Yakub was at least 818 years-old. That makes sense, but why, you may ask, did he want to create a race of pale oppressors? I presume it’s a black thing

http://www.buffalobeast.com/?p=2982
Are you telling me this stuff is not true?

[joseph5620]

No and No
As you can see its still in my usertitle and when I get my points up to 8K I will change it back again. Im now ready to discuss Tyson seeing as you have literally run out of thread hijacks

Because the internet exists in America can we then therefore conclude that all Americans are exposed to it in equal amounts?
The answer is of course not
When Ali was at the Olympoics he told a Russian reporter that America is the best country in the world. It has problems but we have qualified people sorting that out. Does that sound like a guy worried about living in a hostile enviroment? He was a optimist and a patriot back then. Just because a country has problems doesnt mean that everyone in that country will be exposed to it in equal amounts. Its a logical fallacy.
Joe Louis and Frazier suffered more than Ali ever would and they were patriots. He chose to join the Nation and that is the end of it. There were other options available to him. The environment argument is a very slippery slope

There were other options avaiable to him, like joining a civil rights movement

lol at your flawed logic
All people no matter what have to accept responsibilites for there actions you cannot blame the environment. The fact that other people in the same position as him chose not to join hurts your argument. Black and whie Americans were shocked when they found out Ali joined that loony group
Floyd Patterson had a much harder upbringing than Ali and he became a civil rights activist.
Joe Louis was from the Deep South and he was a proud American and took part in the Second World War
Joe Frazier was brought up on a plantation in South Carolina and he was a proud American

These guys lived in the same America as Ali did

If pampered middle class Ali wants join a loony group that promises to tell him about secret spaceships thats up to him. But you cannot tell me it was the hostile environment that made him do so.

Unless you grew up or lived in America during the 60's as a black person, you should keep your mouth shut about what Ali faced or didn't face in terms of racism. You think you know the black experience in America from reading books. Unless you experienced it you cannot speak on the topic of "who had it worse or how someone should have responded." The fact that you call Ali "pampered" in the 50's and 60's, shows your ignorance on the topic of racism. Ali grew up in Louisville, Kentucky during the 40's,50's. Anybody with any intelligence knows what type of racism Ali faced in the South during that period. You're so rooted in your agenda that you blindly(and ******ly) overlook this.

"Your friend" Mike Tyson has his own reality show now. Using your logic a convicted rapist shouldn't be rewarded for his bad behavior.

[GJC]

[/B]






Unless you grew up or lived in America during the 60's as a black person, you should keep your mouth shut about what Ali faced or didn't face in terms of racism. You think you know the black experience in America from reading books. Unless you experienced it you cannot speak on the topic of "who had it worse or how someone should have responded."

Think that's pretty much the crux of it.
Whilst I think King's softly softly approach paid more dividends I can understand Malcolm X's more confrontational approach. Did Ali say some dumb things in his 20s that he probably regretted in his 50s? For sure, who hasn't? As for the NOI it always appeared to me a very divisive strange group but I can understand people frustrated by their circumstances buying into it.

[GJC]

One guy enters debates in the Senate with other Civil Rights activists

If the guy is Kennedy whilst I wouldn't want to besmirch his memory I'm not so sure that the term civil rights activist fits him that well. I think at best he was carried along by events rather than influencing them.

[joseph5620]

One guy enters debates in the Senate with other Civil Rights activists and encourages blacks in the Deep South to vote. His work is then stopped because he is killed and you want to compare that to Ali who belonged to a group which forbade him from getting involved in politics in any way? Ali never got involved in any group with the intention of changing anything. What was stopping him from taking part in marches or actions of civil disobedience? Malcolm X couldnt because he was killed what is Ali's excuse?
Malcolm X was killed before he could carry out his plan which would of been more than complaining to collegue students. And that is all Ali was doing complaining he never had any intention of ever changing anything. Too busy waiting for a spaceship to take him away
One guy is given months to do something while the other guy has years and you consider that a fair comparison?

With your friend Ali calling for his death

Double standards and ******ity on your part. Do you think "Marching and actions of Civil disobedience" started only after Malcolm X was killed? Malcolm had many opportunities to do this when he was alive and he didn't. It's clear that you don't know what you're talking about. Your rhetoric and irrelevant links that you post don't hide the fact and you've become boring and predictable.

You claim Ali was just "complaining" about racism(as if he didn't have a reason) which further shows your ignorance". The Polish fighter Ali beat in the Olympics would have been allowed to sit/eat in restaurants in America that was forbidden to Ali. Or his family. That's just one example of something Ali was (in your words) "complaining about".




Stop trying to speak on something you never experienced and never will. Muhammad Ali changed has since done a lot of great things in his life. People all over the world recognize that. Your repetitive post on the topic will never change that. Don't worry. You still have Iron Mike to idolize.

[Toney616]

[/B]
Unless you grew up or lived in America during the 60's as a black person, you should keep your mouth shut about what Ali faced or didn't face in terms of racism.

Mark Kram from Sports Illustrated spent a lot of time with Ali's parents and they told him how it was for Ali growing up. So its not like im making up anything here. I'm going by what his own parents said

You think you know the black experience in America from reading books. Unless you experienced it you cannot speak on the topic of "who had it worse or how someone should have responded." .

You have to take responsibilyt for your own actions. If he wants to join the Nation and believe in spaceships thats his business but you cannot say that his environment is what pushed him into it.

The fact that you call Ali "pampered" in the 50's and 60's, shows your ignorance on the topic of racism. Ali grew up in Louisville, Kentucky during the 40's,50's.

So the words of his own parents and Archie Moore means absolutely nothing
.Not to mention the fact that Ali himself said that America was the best country in the world. He only started to get twisted when he allowed the Nation into his head.

Anybody with any intelligence knows what type of racism Ali faced in the South during that period. You're so rooted in your agenda that you blindly(and ******ly) overlook this.

Here we go again. You cannot know what he went through - you are just assuming he went through crap.

Your friend" Mike Tyson has his own reality show now. Using your logic a convicted rapist shouldn't be rewarded for his bad behavior.

lol
My logic is he shouldnt be rewarded for being in movements he had no part in and now you are trying to twist my words to say that Tyson shouldn't of gone to jail for ****. You must be desperate