The greatest in the Super and Junior weight classes?

[greeh]

105: Ricardo Lopez
108: Jung-Koo Chang
115: Gilberto Roman
122: Wilfredo Gomez
130: Alexis Arguello
140: Duilio Loi/Eddie Perkins/Antonio Cervantes (can't friggin decide!)
154: Thomas Hearns
168: Roy Jones Jr
200: Evander Holyfield

/greeh

[Sugar Adam Ali]

alot of good post and replies,,,

im stuck at jr mid between hearns and mccallum

168 i got roy jones, but ward is creeping up

cruiser is holy

the lower weights are very hard except for ricardo lopez...

I think its very tough especially at 130 where you have floyd, chavez, arguello,

what about carlos zarate,, or was he just bantamweight and not superbantam

[greeh]

alot of good post and replies,,,

im stuck at jr mid between hearns and mccallum

168 i got roy jones, but ward is creeping up

cruiser is holy

the lower weights are very hard except for ricardo lopez...

I think its very tough especially at 130 where you have floyd, chavez, arguello,

what about carlos zarate,, or was he just bantamweight and not superbantam

I also had trouble to decide who between McCallum and Hearns. If memory serves me right Zarate only fought once at 122 when still in his prime (against Wilfredo Gomez), then down to bantamweight again. He then retires after losing against Lupe Pintor. Does a comeback nearly seven years later, now as a past prime super bantamweight, fighting a couple of low class opponents before he finishes off against Jeff Fenech and Daniel Zaragoza, losing both.

/greeh

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I also had trouble to decide who between McCallum and Hearns. If memory serves me right Zarate only fought once at 122 when still in his prime (against Wilfredo Gomez), then down to bantamweight again. He then retires after losing against Lupe Pintor. Does a comeback nearly seven years later, now as a past prime super bantamweight, fighting a couple of low class opponents before he finishes off against Jeff Fenech and Daniel Zaragoza, losing both.

/greeh

thanks for clearing that up about zarate

[greeh]

thanks for clearing that up about zarate

No problems.

/greeh

[IronDanHamza]

Not possibly, undoubtedly. Kessler is easily the best win on Froch's resume.

It's a bit odd, but whatever. I've seen weirder. A tough run, warrior attitude and some good wins along with an hilarious personality doesn't = greatest ever when it's pretty clearly not the case, as much as I'd like it to be in Froch's case.

One of the most underrated trash talkers of all time, yes, the greatest SMW of all time, no.

The Super Middleweight division is has a very brief history.

When fighters with resumes as weak as Calzaghe and Ottke are considered to be #1 and #2 then I struggle to see how ranking Carl Froch above them is far fetched.

He has a better resume at 168 than both as far as I'm concerned.

[IronDanHamza]

He won a vacant belt, after Louis had retired. I wouldn't say a one year spell as 'champion' equals the best of all times, which is what I was referring to. With regards to him being the greatest LHW of all times, I'm not sure - but def top 3. Tunney, is another great LHW. Foster, Langford if you rank him, Moore are all greats .(Spinks was very underrestimated as well. But Charles was probably the best P4P.

You might not think it's relevant, but if one of his major wins is based on a robbery, it does take something away from that victory.

He's had an incredible run, but a critic would point out that Taylor had recently been ko'd, Abraham had just been schooled by Dirrell, he lost to Kessler, beat a 42 year old Johnson and lost to Ward.

He's then had another very good run of fights with 2 good opponents and one, well, not so good.

Basically, Ward's wins over Kessler, Froch, Bika, Miranda, Green and Dawson are very much on par or better than Froch's wins considering he won against Kessler when he was a champion, won against Froch when he was champion and against Dawson when he was champion at LHW.

Joe Calzaghes run of wins over an unbeaten Kessler, unbeaten Lacy, Bika who had only lost a very dubious decision, Robin Reid and Chris Eubank is also very very close to Froch's, if not higher. Add to that a win over Hopkins albeit in a different weight class.

At the best he can hope for a place in top 5, but even that is a stretch. Nigel Benn, Eubank, Toney, RJJ, Collins, Park - these guys would all have something to say.

But I'm sure you will leave another arrogant reply as to why a person who has never even been the best in his era, is the best of all times.

He's not the beat in his era because the best of his era Is likely to overtake him when all said and done. Their careers aren't over.

None of those guys can be ranked above Froch at 168.

Roy Jones has the best win and that's all he did. The rest don't have the résumé Froch has.

Calzaghe has an argument, as does Ward. And Ward likely ends up #1 at 168 if he's not already.

And I have no idea why you are brining up wins outside of 168 into this discussion.

[IronDanHamza]

That one didn't come down to styles. Calzaghe was just better than Froch. Possibly the best win that Froch has is against a guy who Calzaghe beat at peak, and it took Froch two tries.

Of course style still plays a part as always.

Just because fighter A beat fighter B better than fighter C did doesn't make them greater or even better.

Examples to support this can be reeled from here to next week.

[The Surgeon]

I understand the need to talk about resumes for ranking purposes but You take a Prime Roy Jones and there isn't a fighter who reigned at SMW that comes close to beating him

[LacedUp]

He's not the beat in his era because the best of his era Is likely to overtake him when all said and done. Their careers aren't over.

None of those guys can be ranked above Froch at 168.

Roy Jones has the best win and that's all he did. The rest don't have the résumé Froch has.

Calzaghe has an argument, as does Ward. And Ward likely ends up #1 at 168 if he's not already.

And I have no idea why you are brining up wins outside of 168 into this discussion.

OK, so let's look at Froch's resume once again and take all fights out of 168 out of the equation.

1) Jermaine Taylor - 1 victory at 168.
2) Arthur Abraham - 1 victory at 168.
3) Lucian Bute - Best win was either Sakio Bika, Miranda or old Glen Johnson that Carl had just beaten. Hardly jaw dropping resume.
4) Andre Dirrell (many think Froch lost this one) - Best win was.... Anthony Hanshaw who's best result was a win over Ikeke or a draw with Mendy.
5) Glen Johnson with 14 losses and 2-2 in his last 4
6) Jean Pascal - best win was an old Ikeke, but was a strong fighter. Good win for Froch.
7) Mikkel Kessler - Who he had previously lost to and was coming off 3 years of inactivity against lower level opposition.

Now, this is just what a critic would say.

Calzaghe, Ward > Froch.