boxing myths that needs some correcting...

[Steak]

I dont think Leonard had any choice but to fight Duran's fight in their 1st match.

its not like Leonard could have just decided 'oh yea, I should be boxing' and would have started dominating.

anyone who has actually watched the fight should know that the fight actually started like that. Leonard was on the backfoot in the first round and wasnt really engaging. that changed in the 2nd round when Duran threw a right left combination, and when Leonard tried to slip them Duran hurt him with the left hook.

again not too long after(but a different round) Leonard was trying to 'keep away' with the jab...and Duran timed the right hand over his jab and hurt him, which again lead to Duran beating the **** out of him.

Also something thats overlooked is the referee. Whether you agree or disagree with his choices, this is what happened: instead of clean breaking them when they were tied up, he would try to simply try to push their arms down or push them away from one another, without telling them to stop punching. in other words, he tried to force them to fight their way out. this favoured infighting, which helped out Duran.
A ref nowadays would have broke the fight up the second Leonard started holding.


As for the Meldrick Taylor topic: no, he wasnt already totally shot after the Duran fight. In fact, he had a pretty darn good performance against Aaron Davis afterwards winning him a title, after moving up to Welterweight. but Taylor was much worse after the Chavez fight, thats for sure: multiple fractures and urinating blood are pretty clear signs of damage that will stick with you.

[Thread Stealer]

pep winning a round without throwing a single punch? is this true?

He supposedly won a round against Jackie Graves without throwing a punch, but a researcher over at cyberboxingzone researched it and concluded it was more than likely that this did not happen.

was meldrick taylor really wasted after the chavez fight?

A beating like that (not to mention the mental effect) probably took something out of him, but Taylor was still a very good fighter afterwards. He moved up a year later and beat an undefeated Aaron Davis for a WW title, which was probably the 2nd best win of his career. Taylor always would've had a short stint at the top due to his style, weight problems at 140, lack of size and power, and the talent level at 147. The Glenwood Brown fight, a few months after the Davis fight, was probably the last meaningful win Taylor had. You saw the struggles Taylor but it was still a good win IMO for him to get off the canvas twice and beat a naturally bigger contender.

did duran make leonard fight his fight in montreal?

It was hard for Leonard to really use much movement because Duran was all over him. Duran did a good job of cutting off the ring and roughing Leonard up on the ropes and up close. Furthermore, Leonard wasn't traditionally much of a mover anyway. He liked to box flat-footed in a relaxed manner, sticking out the jab, and looking to open up with his combinations and vicious left hook. The rematch with Duran, the Hagler fight, and portions of the Howard fight showed Leonard boxing on his toes in a fleet-footed type manner, but Leonard usually fought flat-footed.

did leonard duck pryor?

Unless you think offering Pryor $500,000 (Pryor's previous career high was 40-50k) is a "duck", then no. For comparisons, bigger names like Benitez got and Duran (Montreal) got around a mil, a mil and a half for fighting Leonard, and smaller names like Kalule got $250k.

Pryor being this ultra-avoided guy is a myth, at least if we're talking 140 and up. He had offers to fight Duran, Leonard, and a unification 140 lb. bout with Mamby.

what other myths you have in mind?

Muhammad Ali was not merely lying on the ropes in Zaire, taking a beating from George Foreman, until Foreman tired. He was landing all shorts of good straight blows on Foreman's face all night long, well before Foreman fatigued.

Marvin Hagler was a versatile boxer-puncher for the great majority of his career, not some face-first slugger.

People talk about Shane Mosley being this amazing lightweight who lost a lot once he moved to welterweight. His abilities didn't suddenly drop, he simply faced better fighters and a really tough matchup in Vernon Forrest. His opposition at lightweight was pretty weak. From his 2nd fight at WW (Willy Wise) all the way to the 6th fight (Adrian Stone), Mosley looked terrific at welterweight. Oscar De La Hoya was by leaps and bounds the best opponent Shane had ever faced at that time, and Shane looked absolutely sensational.

[talip bin osman]

some more myths...

"hagler was a face first brawler..."

"hearns had a fragile chin..."

"duran was having stomach cramps when he quit in new orleans..."

margarito had used loaded gloves against cotto..."

[letsgobrady]

it is a story that was probably started by him in a bar long ago with to many rum and cokes in him and an audience of beer drinking pals who believed him,there is no way a fighter can win a round without throwing a punch,even if the other guy does not land a punch the round would be scored even,:boxing:

defense is a scoring criteria in boxing so yes you can win a round by makin your opponent miss. why would it be a draw?defense, affective aggression, clean punches and ring generalship

[talip bin osman]

He supposedly won a round against Jackie Graves without throwing a punch, but a researcher over at cyberboxingzone researched it and concluded it was more than likely that this did not happen.




A beating like that (not to mention the mental effect) probably took something out of him, but Taylor was still a very good fighter afterwards. He moved up a year later and beat an undefeated Aaron Davis for a WW title, which was probably the 2nd best win of his career. Taylor always would've had a short stint at the top due to his style, weight problems at 140, lack of size and power, and the talent level at 147. The Glenwood Brown fight, a few months after the Davis fight, was probably the last meaningful win Taylor had. You saw the struggles Taylor but it was still a good win IMO for him to get off the canvas twice and beat a naturally bigger contender.



It was hard for Leonard to really use much movement because Duran was all over him. Duran did a good job of cutting off the ring and roughing Leonard up on the ropes and up close. Furthermore, Leonard wasn't traditionally much of a mover anyway. He liked to box flat-footed in a relaxed manner, sticking out the jab, and looking to open up with his combinations and vicious left hook. The rematch with Duran, the Hagler fight, and portions of the Howard fight showed Leonard boxing on his toes in a fleet-footed type manner, but Leonard usually fought flat-footed.



Unless you think offering Pryor $500,000 (Pryor's previous career high was 40-50k) is a "duck", then no. For comparisons, bigger names like Benitez got and Duran (Montreal) got around a mil, a mil and a half for fighting Leonard, and smaller names like Kalule got $250k.

Pryor being this ultra-avoided guy is a myth, at least if we're talking 140 and up. He had offers to fight Duran, Leonard, and a unification 140 lb. bout with Mamby.



Muhammad Ali was not merely lying on the ropes in Zaire, taking a beating from George Foreman, until Foreman tired. He was landing all shorts of good straight blows on Foreman's face all night long, well before Foreman fatigued.

Marvin Hagler was a versatile boxer-puncher for the great majority of his career, not some face-first slugger.

People talk about Shane Mosley being this amazing lightweight who lost a lot once he moved to welterweight. His abilities didn't suddenly drop, he simply faced better fighters and a really tough matchup in Vernon Forrest. His opposition at lightweight was pretty weak. From his 2nd fight at WW (Willy Wise) all the way to the 6th fight (Adrian Stone), Mosley looked terrific at welterweight. Oscar De La Hoya was by leaps and bounds the best opponent Shane had ever faced at that time, and Shane looked absolutely sensational.

tnx for this stealer...

[Obama]

Trying to keep a guy at the end of your jab and trying to dance is a little different. There was no dancing in the first fight.

1st fight Leonard tried to fight defensively without running, he failed. Second fight he ran, succeeded.

[r.burgundy]

And no, Leonard didn't duck Pryor, but he did duck a prime Hagler. Even when he finally DID fight Hagler years later, it was STILL a close fight, which shows how good and how tough Hagler was.

that he was able to lose to a natural welter coming off a long layoff?

[JAB5239]

that he was able to lose to a natural welter coming off a long layoff?

14 years and 66 fights later to an all time great who had every advantage.

[r.burgundy]

14 years and 66 fights later to an all time great who had every advantage.

ray leonard had every advantage
lord i done heard it all

[JAB5239]

ray leonard had every advantage
lord i done heard it all

Got the gloves he wanted, the ring size and 12 rounds instead of 15 on top of catching Hagler at the tail end of his career after Marvin had been calling him out for years.